MA Weapons

A place to discuss and compare items, armors, weapons, etc., and see how to combine them
Syn_captian
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by Syn_captian »

first difference i see with your calcs than the ones i did-when i did them AC=10k

but with your's:

http://auno.org/ao/dmg.php?special%5B33 ... &bonus=507

Dmg calculator (figured i thought it was fair to make it go full D too) Just multiply the dmg done in 10 secs by 1.225 then double it for 2x claws which makes total damage by 2x claws = 31,970
then: 12*3400=40800
total dmg done=72770

me: Considering that ive never fought a mob w/ 0 AC's before, ill just with the ones that have been on normal S10 mobs
crits: 4500
normal hits: 800-2700
hits/min=24
average=3400
3400*24=81600

consider that in order to compaire dmg, you should have the same add dmg mod, and yes i have about 200 aad dmg, so add 307 more dmg/hit
307*24=7368
total for first dmg/min=7368+81600=88968

therefore fists>claws
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noobas
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by noobas »

Rulzern wrote:Also, disharmony is kinda crap at this level it seems, you get 49 HP every time it procs, it procs ~6.72 times per minute for fists, and 10.36 times per minute with fists+claws, healing you for a grand total of 178.36 HP more with claws than fists, is this correct?

Where did you get this? I'm sure at 150 the amount it heals is garbage, but, unless the proc success frequency changes later on, iirc I was landing the drain on 80% of hits. Even with only 1 shenstick on, at 220 I was landing it at least 30 times per minute.

We're talking about healing your enitre hp in just over a minute.

if the heal is only for 49 hp, 49*20= ~1000hp granted, this isn't very much, and I agree there are probably better places to stick your perks, but, just for the sake of figuring the landing frequency....
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Rulzern
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by Rulzern »

Also, disharmony is kinda crap at this level it seems
The frequency of the proc changes later on, and ends up healing 150 HP 50% of each hit.

Cap, the calcs are not that easy.

First of all, the Auno link you have uses 1500 AR, that's impossible to get at 150 (that's not adjusted for post-1k AR curve). Your inits is also 1k, the claws use physical init, and need 1150 to cap at 1/1 at full def.
Just multiply the dmg done in 10 secs by 1.225 then double it for 2x claws which makes total damage by 2x claws = 31,970
What? O.o
First off, the damage calcs on auno include specials.
Second, why are you multiplying it by 2.45? This brings your regular hits up to 12.25.

Doing a quick look here, using your auno config (with 1200 inits, and 1k AR), we'd have to multiply by 5 to get the number of hits we need (25, since in 60 seconds we get 25 hits from claws, and 12 hits from fists), ignoring specials that comes out to:
10166*5 = 50830 + 12*3400 = 91630 damage per minute for fists+claws

Therefore doing calculations correctly>not doing them correctly.
Syn_captian
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by Syn_captian »

LOL im a nub, multiplyed by 1.225 b/c for some stupid reason i was thinking 10*1.225=12.5=12.5 hits/one claw! lol

taken from the damage calculator:

The damage done by normal attacks would be 11293 points and 1756 points would be special attacks.

11293*6 (for 6*10 secs=1min)=67,758
3400*12=40,800

40,800+67,758=108,558

I seriously find it hard to believe that your gonna end up doing almost 30k dmg more than my MA with those crappy weapons. Not saying your wrong, i just don't understand, could you tell me how you got that many hits/min with both MA and weapon.
Rulzern wrote:First of all, the Auno link you have uses 1500 AR, that's impossible to get at 150 (that's not adjusted for post-1k AR curve). Your inits is also 1k, the claws use physical init, and need 1150 to cap at 1/1 at full def.
Taken directly from auno with haz bear claw:
Attack rating cap 2500

1.) it's very possible to get 1500+AR atm, i have 1450 ar w/o moon mist.
2.) in order to get 1150 init's you would have to have so much init crap it's rediculus. considering that from ip alone you only have 608 phys init. (not saying its impossible, but saying it would damn near be a waste to put all they init crap in)
Rulzern
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by Rulzern »

Alright, I'll adress those points one by one:

First of all, you can't use the damage calculator in the way you are using to figure out damage while multi-wielding, if you're using 3 weapons, you won't get 30 hits with the claws and 12 with fists, each weapon will get 1/3rd of the time (sort of, explained a bit later) to make attacks, you won't get 30 attacks from the claw(s) per minute.

The reason I said "sort of " earlier, is that the way multi-wielding is done in AO is a bit particular, if you're triple-wielding, you will "ideally" get 0.75 attacks per second, versus 0.5 when single-wielding, and 0.66... when dual-wielding. So if you're triple-wielding, you'll get (ideally) 45 attacks per minute vs. 30 for single-wielding. However, in reality, you won't get that many hits per minute due to the way dual-wielding is done in AP (attacks from one weapon pauses everything, recharges pause attacks but not recharges), testing has shown that you get ~40 attacks per minute when triple-wielding, and ~36 attacks per minute when dual-wielding, using weapons that are 1/1, if one weapon of the three is 2/1, it will take 5 seconds for the 3 attacks, while it will still (theoretically) take 1 second to recharge all three weapons.

So, for calculating multi-wielding, you have to calculate how many hits you get from each weapon per minute on average and the average hit per weapon. The numbers I got for fists were more an estimation than an actual calculation, since I don't know the exact attack/recharge speed of the fists, or how much phys. init you have (numbers would be appreciated :))

How many hits do you get with each weapon per minute?
Claw x2 at 1/1 speed
Fists at 1.5/1 speed
A complete cycle with one attack and recharge for each weapon:
1.5+1+1 (attacks): 3.5 seconds for attack, 1s for recharge, total time for complete cycle 4.5 seconds for 3 attacks. Attacks per second: 2/3, 60*2/3 = 40, this means 13.333... attacks per weapon per minute. Due to the factors mentioned above I chose to round this down to 37 total hits, with 12.5 from each claw, and 12 from fists.

As for the AR thing, it's not a question of if you can reach 1.5k AR at 150, but the post-1k AR template. Auno.org doesn't take the post-1k AR template into consideration, so to figure out your effective AR (the one you can use to calculate damage), look here. Unfortunately I don't have numbers for MA yet, but you can see the way to calculate weapon damage and such post-1k AR.

As for the inits, I'm guessing I'm mistaken here, since I assumed that an MA would put a lot of effort into getting phys. init as high as possible, how much init are we looking at here?

1.5/1 speed with MA with ~1500 skill requires ~1070 phys init, this gives a speed of ~1.2/1 with the claws, and a total number of attacks per minute of ~37, so could round it down to ~34-35 actual attacks, closer to 11.5 attacks per weapon per minute. so, 2 fewer claw hits per minute, and 0.5 less MA hits per minute, a total of ~4.5k damage less per minute on 0AC mobs, bringing the total to: 81160-(1700+3228.8) = 76231.2 vs 81600 (using the numbers you gave, with 200 add damage, since they're not on 0-AC mobs), need 560-ish add damage to make them equal on 0-AC mobs.
Syn_captian
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Re: MA Weapons

Post by Syn_captian »

ok, that makes much more sense now lol
Thnx!
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