To anyone building a TL5 for war

A place to discuss and compare items, armors, weapons, etc., and see how to combine them
User avatar
noobas
Leetissimo!
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:41 am
Location: Canada

To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by noobas »

Allright.

I've made a mistake here. I have talked with several PVPers, and I think the reason why my observations aren't good, is because I live in a different timezone than when most of the PVP happens.

In general - there's very minor opposition in my timezone, and, as a result far far fewer 207's and TL7 support.

In general - in other timezones, it's better to just be part of the zerg - and be a level that isn't going to get ganked, either by 207's or 200's.

Therefore, I have to recommend that if you are rolling toons for war that you choose:

164 enforcer/keeper/possibly soldier (these are just outside the kill level for 207's, but can easily tank a 200, especially with reasonable support)

And 158 for all support: docs (highly needed), traders (CS), crats (especially useful), advies/NT's/agents/whatever else.

In reality, level 158 if you live in a high population zone like europe or NA, this is highly applicable.
Last edited by noobas on Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Jakereaper
Strong Leet
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:47 pm
Location: Romania

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Jakereaper »

Even if I don't do PvP I recognize the great ideas and suggestions noobas posted.

I am not sure why Clan wants to make 150 pvp toons, in all wars that I had the ability to participate most of them were decimated by 170 omni.

From what I see (but what do I know) omni has created a solid base of 170 characters and 110ish characters. I imagine that as long as they keep TL7 sites, they want now to expand towards other TLs, like TL5.


Good points, I hope everyone takes heed of this.
Yay
Atilise
Little Leet
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:30 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Atilise »

I wholeheartedly agree Noobas. It's a phenomenon that I don't quite understand. My keeper is 164, however was built at a time where there were many 207s around (Paradise had an entire team of them), what I don't understand is all the 150-158s. The only time a 200 has ever been a threat to me at war was when I was in a team of 150-158s and a 200 showed up because I was the only 159+ AND I only died because it was a fixer and was able to kite me comfortably since no one else was even in range.

If you look at the power gains even between some 164 vs 170 professions it becomes evident why even this 6 levels makes a difference:

Keeper: Guardian of Might - 300 Ofab, 2s HD.

Adventurer: Extra perks make it possible to almost max all their best ones. (The call, Edged master, Bio cocoon, acrobat, CoLI and CoNC) Leader of the Pack buff and Blur of Claws if its needed for evaders.
User avatar
Boomer
The Boom
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:54 am
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Boomer »

I can not only say I agree with your post Noobas but I can say I was there. I have never seen a 150-164 worth a crap against a properly built 170. I don't have a TL5 anymore, however I remember when my soldier was. I have lost the screen shots I took of encounters in BS and Wars. When I had TMS ready nobody could kill me at that time 1 on 1, sometimes 1 on 3 if they were not well equipped. And when TMS was out or in cool down, I only remember ever being killed by 1 enforcer, and 1 other soldier. I would say my soldier was better at pvp at TL5 than he is now, most likely due to lack of a few end game items, and I have not played much this past 8 months. I remember seeing a few, but not many mind you, SL omnis showing up at wars with intent to find TL5's they could hit. But a lot of things have changed since server merge and when I played last. My mind set would be the same today as it was then. "I got killed, but it took a 207 to kill me." There is no shame in being killed by someone 30+ levels higher than you. What is a shame is spending all the time, money and whatever on a character that is better in just a few more levels.

I don't pretend to know what is going on now in the wars, I have no idea right now. But numbers still count for something. Really a good post for people to view, in my opinion it should be viewed by other clan's that want to contribute, maybe a copy of your post on Alliance forums would help, or any other forum that is read by clans that can make this turnout happen.
User avatar
Bredin
Leetissimo!
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Bredin »

I have a 159 trader and 148 enf, neither doing anything. Looks like 170 is a good target for both, with priority on enf
General, Athen Paladins
User avatar
noobas
Leetissimo!
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:41 am
Location: Canada

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by noobas »

I wouldn't take your trader past 164 bredin.

My post explains why it's important not to take low HP profs past 165. (ie. 165 is open to 207's)

Trader is definitly a high priority target, as is doctors. my bet would be first take your enf to 170 (enfs are notoriously easy to twink) then work on trader (traders are notoriously difficult to build well).
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Bredin
Leetissimo!
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:25 pm

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Bredin »

Thanks for the direction Noobas. I will bring the toons up to those levels and pick it up from there.
General, Athen Paladins
User avatar
Backstabbah
Maxi Leet
Posts: 420
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:58 pm
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Contact:

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Backstabbah »

Everything Noobas has said is exactly why myself and Anseh have decided to level our Advys to 170.

Omni found out about this before clans, and are reaping the benefits currently.
Image
Rocts - MA // Backstabbah - Shade // Deadwreck - Enf
Tower War and PvP Perfectionist
Come Check Out My Live Stream @Twitch.TV!
User avatar
tommytanker
Maxi Leet
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Texas

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by tommytanker »

I agree with your post BUT with my experience 150 has a lot more chances to survive than a 170.
You compared 10 lvl150s vs 10 170's... Now compare 10 lvl170s vs 10 204 or 207's :wink:

Yes, 170s have a lot better equips and can DD a lot more than 150s but the problem is that Omni is unkilleable at TL7;
Couple days ago Clans were totally winning at TL5 and this is how Omni raped our asses with like one third of our numbers - yeah one third!: they brought 220s + 207 + 200s and killed all 160+ then they brought their 160-170s and killed the rest of the 150s.. One by one they wiped us 3 times, some clans left and eventually we had to give up.

One of the best 170 out there is Teoo, ask him why he decided to make a 158 agent. Everytime he would bring Teoo some Omni would always go and kill him.

Clans lack TL7 support and whenever we get it Omni brings more and basically we end up with none.

Could also be helpful to have a 150 and a 170 just to swap at war. I do it a lot with my 150 and 200 - very helpful!
Image
User avatar
noobas
Leetissimo!
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:41 am
Location: Canada

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by noobas »

Tommy, this is not an accurate assessment of the "general" situation.

What you described is what happened once.

The reality is that 170's can easily survive one or two 207's.

With 220 clan support, 207's disappear fast.

But it takes a long time for the situation that you've described to progress to a point where clan has the only option left of bringing 150's.


Consider: there are probably 10ish total omni 207's, about 5 clan ones, on any given night, the max you'd see is 2.

Clan has the potential to bring out say.... 1 220 for any one TL5 twink, so in any situation, there should always be at least one 220 who's available to come help.


220 vs 207 is a dead or meeped 207. Yes, I agree omni sometimes brings out 220's as well, but this is nothing new. From what it sounds like, clan got beat in that situation, and to avoid a loss, you logged lower toons that weren't in range of whatever they brought last. That's fine, for a WHILE but you still end up losing because omni will log 170's and beat your ass, because 170's will always beat 150's.


170's with 220 support is a win or a less decisive loss.
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
imamedic
Strong Leet
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:36 pm
Location: ireland

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by imamedic »

Unless many things have changed drastically in the last few months, I'd say Tommy has the better understanding of the "real" situation.

Any 207 trox fixer/agent/enf will destroy any 170, even advies long before they die to a 220. Consider, you're there banging away at a tower, 207 bluedot runs up to you, hits limber..you hit coon and DoF(and you will, or you die), bluedot runs back out of gas only to return 30secs later and unload alpha.All the while your 220 is following it cursing sync issues.

By all means bring your 170 toon to war, I did and still would, but be prepared to claim the moral victory of making the other side bring 207s wiith at least a full team of 220s to support it while you got 1, or maybe 2 unteamed 220s trying their damndest to kill the 207 with blockers/crat aura and 220 pocket docs. This is Clan pvp, always was, always will be...and we love it!. :P
tommytanker wrote: Couple days ago Clans were totally winning at TL5 and this is how Omni raped our asses with like one third of our numbers - yeah one third!: they brought 220s + 207 + 200s and killed all 160+ then they brought their 160-170s and killed the rest of the 150s.. One by one they wiped us 3 times, some clans left and eventually we had to give up.

Clans lack TL7 support and whenever we get it Omni brings more and basically we end up with none.
This could describe 90% of the wars I done in the last 3 years. To say it's "not an accurate assessment of the "general" situation" is downright nutz.
User avatar
noobas
Leetissimo!
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:41 am
Location: Canada

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by noobas »

Here's the setup I'm doing on my 150 (to be 158) trader.

Note the heavy concentration of nano resist and dodge range.

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=194441
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
tommytanker
Maxi Leet
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:41 pm
Location: Texas

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by tommytanker »

noobas wrote:Here's the setup I'm doing on my 150 (to be 158) trader.

Note the heavy concentration of nano resist and dodge range.

http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=194441
What would you think about a Pointed Hood of Eric Miller instead?
Image
User avatar
noobas
Leetissimo!
Posts: 4951
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:41 am
Location: Canada

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by noobas »

well the benefit of 264 CS is that I got better drain AR, dodge/duck/evade as well.

for 50 DR/NR I think it's a good exchange, but not for 30.

Actually, I'm not really impressed with dalja light combat skirt due to the -50 RI on it.

fisher king+mystical force is ftw due to no debuffs, so is shroud, but the dalja annoys me. ranged init is retarded low on traders already without the debuffs.

this type of build means you actually do about 20k damage/minute. it's the lowest DPS of practically any build except with Ithaca (which I'm considering as well, but I think silverback is better for PVP in terms of AS reliability.).
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Elrojo
BacoTroll
Posts: 2517
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Australia

Re: To anyone building a TL5 for war

Post by Elrojo »

I was of the impression the RI for a trader was not very good in producing kills any faster? or is this different with the easy shot perk not ready at 158?

Afaik you can kill most normal HP profs (not Enf/Soldi/Keeper), with AS/Fling/1 hit, 3 perks (?) and a HP drain. Throw in a kizzer I guess.

Do you need to waste IP on RI?
Post Reply