AO's mouse controls

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Chrisax
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AO's mouse controls

Post by Chrisax »

Hyde in an unrelated thread wrote:PS. Chrisax ... I might have logged in to play over the holidays ... but I can't handle the primitive AO mouse controls any more. I had this problem the last time I came back. Just a thought of something you should whisper in FC's ear the next time they talk about polishing up the new engine. 2-button mouse movement (yes, a'la WoW, but also many other games) is going to be a requirement!

:)
It's off topic but I'd like a shot explanation (or something) about the mouse concerns. (I must admit that I use arrows to move most of the time... yes I'm an oldtimer... I already used arrows in Doom 1)
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Hyde
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Hyde »

I wasn't really sure where to split this to, so feel free to move.

Basically the issue is this ... AO has some mouse controls but they don't allow you to free up one of your hands completely for using the keyboard. While it's "adequate" controls it really is awful compared to most other 3D games these days. And it really could be solved simply by allowing specific actions to be bound to the mouse buttons including button combinations.

I'm going to use WoW as an example. I know how many folks will turn off the second they hear that, but there are plenty of similar examples (I believe NeverWinter Nights was one).

In WoW the controls I use on the mouse (which are the game defaults) are:

* No buttons - mouse moves cursor (similar to AO)
* Right Button - mouse spin turn toon (similar to AO)
* Left Button - mouse look (similar to AO IF I remember properly)
* Right+Left Button - mouse movement turns character WHILE character runs forward

I know it seems like a minor difference, and you can almost do all of what you need in AO, but that tiny little combination really does make a huge change to your gameplay. I'm not sure but I -think- AO might let you use the middle button to auto-run? But even so, it's not the same. That forces you to move to a different button. And being auto-run it means you have to take a separate action to stop it. Simply combining the 2 buttons for run (but not auto-run ... ie ... it stops moving when you let either finger up off the button) makes the whole process almost an unconscious reflex.

It is the last part that make the world of difference. Your other hand miraculously becomes free to NEVER EVER be used for movement (unless you are strafing or going backwards ... though many don't go backwards they just flip around and go forwards since it is so easy with mouse controls). Which frees you up for a ton more stuff.

Say what you will ... I know Chris played WoW a bit at lower levels and found it incredibly simple ... but at higher levels there is a fairly serious amount of coordination -required- to get all your actions off. Tanking in WoW is incredibly more involved than tanking in AO. Healing is about the same (though easier in some ways in WoW due to amazing addons). DPS (GOOD DPS that is, not scrubs) is at least as complicated as tanking. And yet it seems easier and more fluid when you can have all of your movements flow through 1 hand while using the other for all the action presses.

It takes about 30-60 minutes of playing to get the hang of it. Once you have the hang of it you -cringe- at the idea of using the keyboard for movement.

I never used WASD in AO for movement ... but I -did- use W for moving forward or my Up arrow. Never using it (I even unbound both keys) is a big improvement for me. I've seen similar remarks from other ex-AO players.

That's it. Long-winded for such a "minor" difference. But every time I go back to AO to say hi or log fr00bs ... this issue smacks me right in the brain.
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Hyde
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Hyde »

The -other- thing that would dramatically improve AO from a controls perspective and goes hand-in-hand:

Allow every hotbar to be keybound. And allow every key on the keyboard to be remapped.

I can't explain how much easier it is to hit all of your dozens of actions when you can have not just 10 keys available to you to mash ... but the entire keyboard including modifier key combinations (control, alt, control+alt, shift, control+shift, control+shift+alt, shift+alt).

In AO you can have multiple hotbars but you can't hit each action across multiple hotbars with a single key. You are limited to 1 through 0 and have to switch the active hotbar with a key combination before you can hit a different set of actions with those 10 keys.

Imagine the power of being able to have, say, 10 hotbars, EACH action on EACH bar of which you can hit with a single key or a simultaneous combination of keys.

Combine that with only needing 1 hand on your mouse to perform all of your movement (again, with the possible exception of backwards or strafing).

However I think this is by far a bigger change than the mouse controls.

...

None of this should change the -default- experience for an AO user, so as not to mess up the veterans who don't want it. But making them options would do a lot to make the game open to players from other games who are used to such things.
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Alphacenta
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Alphacenta »

Hyde wrote:In WoW the controls I use on the mouse (which are the game defaults) are:

* No buttons - mouse moves cursor (similar to AO)
* Right Button - mouse spin turn toon (similar to AO)
* Left Button - mouse look (similar to AO IF I remember properly)
* Right+Left Button - mouse movement turns character WHILE character runs forward
Mouse moves cursor: in AO right now.
Right button moving turns the toon, in AO right now.
Left button moving turns the camera around the toon, in AO right now.
Holding Rbutton and Lbutton soon after that makes you run, release the buttons and you stop running. Haven't tried turning, I usually use rbutton+drag for that. But I can do some testing later.
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Ceokittymeow »

iirc if you press mouse wheel and r click it will o what the 4th thing Hyde mentioned in AO
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Hyde »

Ceokittymeow wrote:iirc if you press mouse wheel and r click it will o what the 4th thing Hyde mentioned in AO
No, close, but it will autorun ... meaning:

1) if you use your mouse wheel for something else OR don't have one, you're still stuck. Laptop pads, small mice, old mice, macro mice will all have issues.

2) you don't have a quick way to stop running ... and if you do the method to moving is different. With the method I described above you have your right-key pressed most of the time to turn your toon, you move the mouse to turn, you keep right mouse pressed to run while pressing left, you release left to stop running. So that instead of an autorun via middle button you have a normal forward that you can put the breaks on instantly and then re-engage by pressing.

If AO would let you map "W"/"Up Arrow" to left button it would be pretty much what I'm talking about.

I know, it's picky, but it is such a simple thing to allow to work for a significant boost in play for plenty o' people.
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Hyde »

so, I popped in on a fr00b quietly. Yes, you're right, R+Middle == WoW's R+L. So that's doable. Good news.

PS. No, I still have no incentive to play, but am patched up again at least :)
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Chrisax »

Patching is good for your health... :wub:
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Grind42 »

Hyde wrote:so, I popped in on a fr00b quietly.
WooT Welcome back Hyde even if its in disguise as a froob!!!! =D>
Hyde wrote: PS. No, I still have no incentive to play, but am patched up again at least :)
Can I have your stuffs? :mrgreen:
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Jakereaper »

Nice to see you again around, Hyde. Try us more :D
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Millerna »

Hyde wrote:so, I popped in on a fr00b quietly. Yes, you're right, R+Middle == WoW's R+L. So that's doable. Good news.

PS. No, I still have no incentive to play, but am patched up again at least :)
Looking forward to the day I see you back ingame, mate
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by Grind42 »

Humz..... Hyde, come say Hi when Im online...... It's true me the Trox misses u tooo.

Seriously though I would love to see u ingame again even occasionally. Your The Best Grumpy Trox Ingame. I have been trying to fill your big shoes but failing dismally.

Hope for all your efforts your House is looking fooking awesome.
Anyway great to hear from u, stay in touch.

*hugs*
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Re: AO's mouse controls

Post by faros1978 »

Wb even in fr00b form hyde , i had a 6 months break too but really i missed the APs

I hope to see u in game. Be well my friend.
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