Sneak question
Sneak question
With the new nanos that NTs are getting I figure I will be able to really help at tower wars, but that I will get called pretty quick by omni once they id all the nt's. So I don't know much about sneak, I understand how it works basically, so do we think it would be worth investing in sneak for pvp with my nt, talking tower wars here only. Just an idea, btw NTs have plenty of ip to spare so I don't mind playing around with ideas.
Daddyrabbit 220/30 ENFStuff
Concealment is pretty simple ...
If you have more Concealment than your adversary has Perception, they can't see you if you've entered hide mode.
...
Posted the below before I saw Fuze's post. I sorta disagree. IF you can get your conceal high enough, it will allow you to survive at towers a little more.
Is it enough for me to consider it? Not as a doctor. Definitely on my shade (who can get alot more than a NT). As a NT? Dunno ... really depends on how much you get targetted.
I'd wait for awhile and see how much you start getting targetted. No point burning the IPR until you know it will matter.
...
Questions for others to answer:
I'm not sure if AoEs pull you out of hide or not, I think they might.
I don't believe you can enter hide mode if you are taking aggro.
I'm not sure what happens if the caller can see you and targets you but the others can't see you. I'm thinking you will get pulled out of hide when you take the first hit, but until then the others won't be able to target you.
...
No class except Agent has enough Concealment to outdo the Perception that a ranged advy can get. BUT, most target callers are Agents or Soldiers. So you probably can avoid the casual callers (ie, the ones who don't get buffed for Perception) AND avoid callers after their side has been wiped (as many times they won't have time to buff beg).
Getting something like a Cloaking Device (QL200 adds 400 Concealment if you have 981 to start with) plus Leet (+200 from Adv) and Meld With Background (+224 from Agent) along with maxing Conceal will probably get you around 1800 Conceal (1400 effective, can't cast with the cloak on ... but you can swap it on/off fairly quickly, using it to avoid detection until you get in close enough to cast). If you used full Combined Scout's armor (or Combined Sharpshoot) you would get another +210. Other gear might add a good chunk as well. If you can implant it it will maybe help some, but I'm guessing that Eye/Ear/Feet are fairly choice locations for symbs.
That's enough to avoid unbuffed non-advy classes but again, Ranged Advy and people who have gotten Stare of Cerberus, Karma Harvest and Blood Makes Noise (and often only Stare) are still going to see you.
Might help, won't be reliable, I just don't think you can get enough Conceal to make a big difference against callers. However, what you CAN make a big difference against is non-Advy melee profs. Enforcers, Shades and Keepers who go charging into a crowd to gank anyone they can. As well as most of the ranged support profs.
... Comparison
Shade: To compare, my shade has around 1350 unbuffed (meaning with cloak and buffs he's around 2150-2200 and w/out Cloak he's around 1800).
Agent: can, in theory (Ruse 3 + using every +Conceal perk AND Combined Sharpshooter), get around 2900-3000. But remember that you can't attack with a Cloaking Device on, making your -effective- Concealment as an agent 2500-2600 (WITH a ton of perks that most Agents won't train). Most agents float between 2200-2400 Conceal from what I've heard.
Ranged Advy: (ie, using Combined Sharpshooter and not Combined Mercenary) on the other hand with full buffs (Stare, Ballad, and Fixer's Karma Harvest + Blood Makes Noise) gets around 2500-2550 Perception. Soli SB can, for a brief period, make that much higher.
Melee Advy: Not really much better than any other class, just much easier access to the +600 Stare of Cerberus.
Others with maxed Perception: Can get between 2200-2600 Perception depending on their symbs (Exterm symbs don't add to Perception) and armor when fully buffed, will float between 1200 and 1900 unbuffed.
Others: Most don't max Perception. Right now Hyde has around 500 unbuffed, 1300 fully buffed (enough to equip a viral scope). He has no armor, just symbs, that add Perception.
... Notes:
I'm probably off by anywhere from 50-200 on the top end of those numbers, I don't know all the buffs from the items that Adv and Agent get. But -your- numbers won't go much higher.
And just to make it even uglier (for you as a hider) ... many symbs types buff Perception by around 275 (including Support and Control). That means an Opifex Doctor, maxing Perception and getting Fixer + Advy buffs, will end up around 2300 Perception. Now, not many support classes max Perception, but it is doable ... in which case you won't even hide from a Doctor. You -would- hide from 95% of non-Advies, since most don't fully max Perception, but you couldn't completely rely on it.
... So ...
Agent and Ranged Advy will swap between who wins.
Agent can usually outhide a Melee Advy.
Anyone who maxes Perception and gets Fixer + Advy buffs can spot -most- non-Agents even with cloaking devices.
Non-Agents with maxed Conceal and a Cloak will hide from 95% or more of the people who either don't max Perception OR don't get Fixer+Advy buffs.
Non-Agents with maxed Conceal will hide from 100% of people who only raise Perception a little or not at all (which is most non-Agent/Shade professions unless they're strong on PvP ... and many at Towers fall into this).
... Summary: If you want it to matter, max Conceal, use Combined Scouts/Observant armor, and always get buffed. It won't always work, but it can help, especially in the case of unprepared opponents.
If you have more Concealment than your adversary has Perception, they can't see you if you've entered hide mode.
...
Posted the below before I saw Fuze's post. I sorta disagree. IF you can get your conceal high enough, it will allow you to survive at towers a little more.
Is it enough for me to consider it? Not as a doctor. Definitely on my shade (who can get alot more than a NT). As a NT? Dunno ... really depends on how much you get targetted.
I'd wait for awhile and see how much you start getting targetted. No point burning the IPR until you know it will matter.
...
Questions for others to answer:
I'm not sure if AoEs pull you out of hide or not, I think they might.
I don't believe you can enter hide mode if you are taking aggro.
I'm not sure what happens if the caller can see you and targets you but the others can't see you. I'm thinking you will get pulled out of hide when you take the first hit, but until then the others won't be able to target you.
...
No class except Agent has enough Concealment to outdo the Perception that a ranged advy can get. BUT, most target callers are Agents or Soldiers. So you probably can avoid the casual callers (ie, the ones who don't get buffed for Perception) AND avoid callers after their side has been wiped (as many times they won't have time to buff beg).
Getting something like a Cloaking Device (QL200 adds 400 Concealment if you have 981 to start with) plus Leet (+200 from Adv) and Meld With Background (+224 from Agent) along with maxing Conceal will probably get you around 1800 Conceal (1400 effective, can't cast with the cloak on ... but you can swap it on/off fairly quickly, using it to avoid detection until you get in close enough to cast). If you used full Combined Scout's armor (or Combined Sharpshoot) you would get another +210. Other gear might add a good chunk as well. If you can implant it it will maybe help some, but I'm guessing that Eye/Ear/Feet are fairly choice locations for symbs.
That's enough to avoid unbuffed non-advy classes but again, Ranged Advy and people who have gotten Stare of Cerberus, Karma Harvest and Blood Makes Noise (and often only Stare) are still going to see you.
Might help, won't be reliable, I just don't think you can get enough Conceal to make a big difference against callers. However, what you CAN make a big difference against is non-Advy melee profs. Enforcers, Shades and Keepers who go charging into a crowd to gank anyone they can. As well as most of the ranged support profs.
... Comparison
Shade: To compare, my shade has around 1350 unbuffed (meaning with cloak and buffs he's around 2150-2200 and w/out Cloak he's around 1800).
Agent: can, in theory (Ruse 3 + using every +Conceal perk AND Combined Sharpshooter), get around 2900-3000. But remember that you can't attack with a Cloaking Device on, making your -effective- Concealment as an agent 2500-2600 (WITH a ton of perks that most Agents won't train). Most agents float between 2200-2400 Conceal from what I've heard.
Ranged Advy: (ie, using Combined Sharpshooter and not Combined Mercenary) on the other hand with full buffs (Stare, Ballad, and Fixer's Karma Harvest + Blood Makes Noise) gets around 2500-2550 Perception. Soli SB can, for a brief period, make that much higher.
Melee Advy: Not really much better than any other class, just much easier access to the +600 Stare of Cerberus.
Others with maxed Perception: Can get between 2200-2600 Perception depending on their symbs (Exterm symbs don't add to Perception) and armor when fully buffed, will float between 1200 and 1900 unbuffed.
Others: Most don't max Perception. Right now Hyde has around 500 unbuffed, 1300 fully buffed (enough to equip a viral scope). He has no armor, just symbs, that add Perception.
... Notes:
I'm probably off by anywhere from 50-200 on the top end of those numbers, I don't know all the buffs from the items that Adv and Agent get. But -your- numbers won't go much higher.
And just to make it even uglier (for you as a hider) ... many symbs types buff Perception by around 275 (including Support and Control). That means an Opifex Doctor, maxing Perception and getting Fixer + Advy buffs, will end up around 2300 Perception. Now, not many support classes max Perception, but it is doable ... in which case you won't even hide from a Doctor. You -would- hide from 95% of non-Advies, since most don't fully max Perception, but you couldn't completely rely on it.
... So ...
Agent and Ranged Advy will swap between who wins.
Agent can usually outhide a Melee Advy.
Anyone who maxes Perception and gets Fixer + Advy buffs can spot -most- non-Agents even with cloaking devices.
Non-Agents with maxed Conceal and a Cloak will hide from 95% or more of the people who either don't max Perception OR don't get Fixer+Advy buffs.
Non-Agents with maxed Conceal will hide from 100% of people who only raise Perception a little or not at all (which is most non-Agent/Shade professions unless they're strong on PvP ... and many at Towers fall into this).
... Summary: If you want it to matter, max Conceal, use Combined Scouts/Observant armor, and always get buffed. It won't always work, but it can help, especially in the case of unprepared opponents.
-
Alphacenta
- Leetissimo!
- Posts: 3200
- Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:05 pm
1) AoE nuke or snare or calm doesn't pull you out of hide, ROOT and STUN does however. Oh and, always turn auto attack OFF.Hyde wrote:Questions for others to answer:
I'm not sure if AoEs pull you out of hide or not, I think they might.
I don't believe you can enter hide mode if you are taking aggro.
I'm not sure what happens if the caller can see you and targets you but the others can't see you. I'm thinking you will get pulled out of hide when you take the first hit, but until then the others won't be able to target you.
2) You can ONLY enter hide mode if you have no aggro - at all. If you had aggro from a mob that isn't dead yet, but which you rooted, ran out of range, concealed, then sneak back, the mob will still see you and attack again.
3) If the caller sees you, and attacks you, you're popped out of hide at once. As soon as the other pressed Q... Poof.
Maybe you should talk to Morkhai Muddy, I saw him use hide in his pvp vids so he obviously knows more
Lupusceleri L220/24 Agent.
Silversmith upcoming TL5 twink.
Wolfseye L110/12 Adventurer (towertwink).
Lysdexic L90/9 Agent (Mimic Enf towertwink).
Aesculapias L21/2 Doctor (ancient).
Aaaand various other alts.
Silversmith upcoming TL5 twink.
Wolfseye L110/12 Adventurer (towertwink).
Lysdexic L90/9 Agent (Mimic Enf towertwink).
Aesculapias L21/2 Doctor (ancient).
Aaaand various other alts.
i will have to test if the new AoE take me out of hide or not, and no NS or layers, the new nanos make me unable to use them. Again I guess we will have to wait and see what changes LE brings to tower wars, I am already in a HP set up to save me from insta death, but may change to scouts.
Daddyrabbit 220/30 ENFStuff
That HP setup is for saving from Instadeath in PvM.Mud wrote: I am already in a HP set up to save me from insta death, but may change to scouts.
In PvP, the HP setup may be a detriment to you.
If there is any way for Mud to be able to switch between HP for PvM and Scouts for PvP, that would really be the way to go. Would max your AR on nanos, too.
And yeah, I do know how hard it might be ... the Stamina on the Paramed and STR/STA on the Leo boots would be harsh. But the Shell can stay on in both configurations.
I really do not expect the game to change much... even for NT.
Dualing as NT gunna be the same vs soldier will be same 'tactic', only you have a more useful nano to use. Still gunna have to root/run vs solja as you do not have any defenses while using the nano.
I do not think FC has done enough to change blob tactic much. Think you will see blobs with the weaker profs in a mech. No airstrike is going to kill off a blob, and they cannot be used often.
Will be something like..
Airstrike incoming POP trox sb ( this is so omni cannot start calling targets with low remaining HP)
Ok, no airstrike for 30min..... blob up
Assist/AS ftw!
I think NTs and even more so Traders will be involved in moving into range of soldier callers and hoping for the best. A couple NTs working together could stay out of range and only roll forward when a new soldier stands up front... dead soldier. Traders will work with others and inform people when the soldier reflect has been drained.
I wouldn't IP concealment for a few months. Wait and see how BS tactics form, as I see the only benifical use of concealment to be on the battlestations and/or any type of non-blob pvp. just my 2 credits worth.
laters
Dualing as NT gunna be the same vs soldier will be same 'tactic', only you have a more useful nano to use. Still gunna have to root/run vs solja as you do not have any defenses while using the nano.
I do not think FC has done enough to change blob tactic much. Think you will see blobs with the weaker profs in a mech. No airstrike is going to kill off a blob, and they cannot be used often.
Will be something like..
Airstrike incoming POP trox sb ( this is so omni cannot start calling targets with low remaining HP)
Ok, no airstrike for 30min..... blob up
Assist/AS ftw!
I think NTs and even more so Traders will be involved in moving into range of soldier callers and hoping for the best. A couple NTs working together could stay out of range and only roll forward when a new soldier stands up front... dead soldier. Traders will work with others and inform people when the soldier reflect has been drained.
I wouldn't IP concealment for a few months. Wait and see how BS tactics form, as I see the only benifical use of concealment to be on the battlestations and/or any type of non-blob pvp. just my 2 credits worth.
laters
rampage`
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