I'm moving on in SWTOR

[Hyde]

This has been a long hard one for me to decide on. Been pondering it for not just weeks but months now. So I'm giving the full background:

* I came to SWTOR for a more focused experience than I was in AO for. More how I played WoW. Scheduled raids, plenty of people online when needed, possibly scheduled PVP teams, etc.

* When I started in SWTOR I was going to be on a PVP server and in a VERY large guild ... but we got hosed by all the Oceanics slamming Swiftsure and I ended up "alt'ing" on Shii-Cho.

* By the time the server queues abated, the guild I was to play in on Swiftsure was devastated in numbers and I saw no real point in playing there ... and while I wanted a more hardcore experience than I figured would happen in AP, I also had already leveled a fair amount and stayed due to inertia.

* I've been incredibly busy with RL this year and thought that I could deal with being in a low pop guild on a low pop server that wasn't a PVE server ... because I'd have enough things to do when I was online to catch up. But ... I don't. I don't want to just level alts, random queue PVP, and work on my tradeskills. And I'm not playing another game to keep me busy when SWTOR is boring.

* I feel that TSW is going to be the final death of AP in SWTOR. In which case, if it is awesome, I'll be going too. But if it isn't what I'm wanting to play ... I'll be stuck having not bothered with gear for 6 months in a mostly-empty guild during the times that I can log on. Bad call on all parts. (and btw, I'm hoping TSW IS amazing, as SWTOR is just "good enough").

* I'm still seriously looking at server xferring when it becomes available. This isn't just me wanting something more than AP, in the end I want more than what I can get on Shii-Cho.

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That's the intro

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* I've pulled Rawhyde out. He NEEDS multiple hardmodes and 8mans to progress in PVE. He almost always queues PVP solo because I have time to PVP when much of the guild isn't online. So really ... nowhere to go but up at that level. I'll miss the old AP chatter, but time to figure something else out.

* It seems like the right time. I've had a couple of raiding weekends now that I would have been able to go to IF I could just join their guild. Yeah, they're hoping I will stay ... and maybe I'll find one where I will. But at least I'm flexible. A number of guilds are trying to stage an early renaissance on Shii-Cho right now by forming larger guilds.

* I did create an alt, "Doctorhyde", which I may level a bit as a Scoundrel just to learn more about them. I'd be happy to hop into AP with him as a way to socialize. I don't expect to play him a lot though.

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Please friend me if you're inclined. Rawhyde, Beefheart, Doctorhyde, Hydentity, Hyding.

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PS. Chris, I know you're going to have a sadface on this one. Sorry. I may well not even be playing SWTOR in a couple of months, but I'm giving it a shot to be a better game for me and this is how. I don't have the time to try and be part of the solution for building a larger guild and keeping everyone happy. And I don't want YOU to have to do that just for the sake of my toon getting to do a few hardmodes and/or raids. All that does is cause that much more frustration.

[Chrisax]

This is sad of course. I will reply in a very simple manner, just truth and obvious things.

- So far, SWTOR has not really convinced anyone after the "solo part". As you mentioned it's at the best "just good enough". Some who tried it, like Rulzie, did even drop fast before completing the solo quest-line. Some went further and then lost interest. It is also clear that global population dropped. We imagined that something could be solid in SWTOR before TSW release but SWTOR is somewhat frozen in the wait for patch 1.2; it's a global bad timing. Also, people who enjoy SWTOR seems to be mostly people who still want a WoW-like game with a SW skin. (My humble opinion about this kind of aging gameplay is that it will likely keep on in WoW for a long while and will die in any other game.)
We even see several times a week in Anarchy Online people (not necessarily AP's) saying they tried SWTOR and got bored so they are back (hoping or not for something else now). Venice Academy, for example, (Backkyard 18 in SWTOR) is dropping SWTOR for good.

- So, in the current state of SWTOR, it's hard to know if we want to invest much energy into it. If SWTOR doesn't interest AP's much, we will have no reason for pushing it. But the problem is we don't know: SWTOR is "searching itself" and TSW is not yet here (changes are still being made so it's hard to know what the final result will be).

Add to this that we started AP-SWTOR a bit late and we have several AP's on other servers willing to join but they can't just drop their characters: they need character transfer. But it's far from being totally our fault as many people could play during the long-term beta (one year), created characters and guilds. And we (AP as an org) didn't have access to this. So we started with a serious lateness.

Nevertheless...

- ... Nevertheless, what you said is something we heard many times, long ago, when AP was created: "Sorry, I'll have to go elsewhere to find what I can't get here", especially because of RL. Thanks some stayed and built, and we became able to finally offer everything. Now, I do reckon the difference is that in AO we had a will that we haven't showed yet in SWTOR, due to the circumstances mentioned above.
You explained you don't have the time to "be part of the solution for building a larger guild and keeping everyone happy"; it can, sadly, be totally understood.
I just hope that some of us will find the time to build, if we want to. What we did once can always be done again. We can do it but it's firstly a matter of what we want.


Anyhow we'll always be happy to see you on alts, and of course to have you in TSW or -who knows- AO. We share a long history and so many memories together!

That said, we were speaking a few nights ago about plans to make AP grow in SWTOR. We'll keep on.

[noobas]

Good luck hyde!

keep frequenting the forums though, because AP's forum community is one of the best evah!

[Bredin]

what noobas said

[Rembaldi]

Good luck to you Hide. I can certainly see your perspective, as I was kinda in the same situation.

With the early access my guild was supposted to be about 20 people, but due to the insane server queues everyone went left and right. Before I know it, I was a one man guild (awesome!). Then I joined up with a small bunch of people, they seemed to have the spirit but eventually it fell to the floor, as they had massive problems recruiting people (republic side). So again I was left with a non-functioning guild, and decided to just quit late january.

I love SWTOR, but I just don't feel like playing it alone.. When server transfers are available, I might consider moving all my characters to the server AP are located on. Then there's TSW soon as well, so who knows what's going to happen anyway

[Chrisax]

Considering how SWTOR is looking at the moment, it could be a good thing if all the AP's currently spread on various server assembled on the same one when it becomes possible.

Let me be clear: with the current SWTOR situation, it can offer better opportunities and, if not, it can't anyhow be worse than jumping for guild to guild. Quite pragmatic, hey?!

Now the unknown factor is TSW and how it will affect the situation. We all know (if you read my posts about it) that the whole game is very ambitious and mostly very original regarding its system. It's the first game that really tries to almost totally change the way MMO's work regarding characters evolution and gameplay. We'll see soon now.

[noobas]

To function properly in SWTOR, AP needed to be recruiting hard RIGHT from the opening of the gates.

The guild me and rojo are in on Dalborrah is great, we're heading towards 250 people (no alts) and at anytime theres between 25 and 40 people online.

We've been driving hard, and we're starting to sttract the cream too. Some of the best PVPers on republic side joined us in the last couple days (below 50) and it's now shaping into a very strong, well rounded guild.

We've got about 10 50's who are engaged all the time on raids, PVP and they are anxiously awaiting the next batch of 50's to hit for the 16 man ops.

It's a fantastic guild, and I'm starting to have good relations with at least 6-10 of the people that are online usually or in vent.

It functions very much the same way as AP, and it is remarkable. Where AP failed was in trusting that all people are inherently good on the Schii cho server, in the pseudo req of registering on forums (when it was impossible to do so given the security questions), and not getting on the recruitment drive at (beta) or on launch.

The org rojo and I were in was the first registered Republic guild, we are big, strong, and there is a very strong sensation of provisioning, helping, and general happiness within the guild. It may change, but for the moment, the infrastructure 4ish channels for vent all populated generally for PVP, PVE, general, etc. allows people to interact and get to know each other not just as the avatar and people are really responsive to that. I didn't know quite how effective it would be but I'm finding it a real treat.

I've been hounding rojo to get it but he's unresponsive... but he's missing out, and that sucks for him because he doesn't even know it.

Anyhow, IMO, we should take the lessons learned in SWTOR (as AP's launch in a new game) and apply those lessons in TSW.

1. Get in early,
2. recruit hard
3. those who register and say they can lead give officership
4. give officers recruiting power
5. keep recruiting
6. once AP hits about 200 members, slow the process, and allow everyone to get to know each other
7. start selectively recruiting good performers,
8. promote the well performing officers
9. make sure vent/TS3/mumble is available for those who wish to use it
10. level at your own pace, grow the guild at a fast pace = win

If we had recruited hard at opening it may have panned out differently, but I know for me that playing on an aussie server with 40ms latency is worth more than any number of friends on another server plus, theres good people everywhere

[Chrisax]

Yeah... once again: we were not and had no way to be in the long-term (one year+) beta. People who started there had a big advantage even if they didn't start a guild at that time and started it later. Let's see how guilds will be in one year from now (whether AP is in SWTOR or not). Two-three years after AO launch the situation totally changed.

That said, who is working on recruitment? And what do we want?... Finally isn't it the question?

[Hyde]

No worries, I will lurk/troll AP forums until they go down. I'm a creature of habit.

[noobas]

It's not just one issue. Population on the server is low. The people that are not in a guild, don't seem real eager to join one. I think a lot are just pure solo mode until they reach end game. Throw in that a lot of things just seem on hold for 1.2 and it just seems like a lot of people are just not into it. Anyone leveling at the moment notice how hard it is to do a +4 mission? General Chat is non existent on planets. There is so little sense of achievement in this game. It is uninspiring.

wow really, I don't usually go to the old server anymore, unfortunately, but on the aussie servers it's heavy-full EVERYTIME I log in.

Fleet rarely drops below 100 people, I've been on tripled instance nar-shadda, in general the chatter is fast paced and guild chatter is frequent as well. It's very busy.

I think a lot of people feel the same as me and rojo do, that FINALLY a MMO has launched a server in our hood, so, thats like we finally can play on equal latency terms as everyone else.

When I was playing AO I was convinced I had 3 seconds of lag for any interaction in PVP. Well, it turns out at the best of times, running on SWTOR's american servers I had 295ms latency. thats 2.95 seconds of lag, and that was the best it got. I can't imagine it was better than that for AO servers.... you know how much that 3 seconds mattered? Man, I'd drop like a sack of crap on enforcer alphas because by the time I'd seen mongo rage go off the enforcer had already queued 14 damage perks on me. Thats f*cking RETARDED. Hellya, we aussies and kiwis' are lovign the equal footing in PVP... it's a world apart from what I was dealign with before.

It's too bad the other servers are lagging on population though. I knew they'd lose some people to the aussie servers, but I really didn't expect so many people to leave that it would seem emptyish - that sucks

Personally I can't wait for server transfer, I am really stoked to get my GS on Dalborrah, and I'm just pokin my way thru this time round... enjoying the game.

[Elrojo]

Good luck Hyde. Your sentiments are most certainly a reflection on the game and it's longevity.

What noobas probably omitted to say is that there are only 3 servers on oceanic option. 1 for each style of play. It's quite easy to have 100+ people when they are forced to aggregate. If there is a server merge coming, or at least the option to change, I'm sure AP and the general pop can work out how to aggregate on servers with activity.

SW for me is still hit and miss. The guild I am in is fine. I don't see a whole lot of chat and some things I don't like, for example trying to sell things in chat or being needy for stuff and then being childish. But as noobs said its probably more about getting a lot in and then sifting down. Most people are well intentioned and the mechanics don't really support the bad behaviour anyhow.

The game itself is really monotonous. I find that the quests repeat and sometimes it's pointless run to a whole new world for one thing then fly back.

I dont know if I can stomach a 3rd toon

[Rembaldi]

If I remember right, there will be server transfers in patch 1.3. But I highly doubt you'll see any server merges anytime soon. It's just really bad for business, showing the world your game is failing, which is exactly what they'll be doing by introducing server merges now. Not that I believe they are actually failing.

[Hyde]

If I remember right, there will be server transfers in patch 1.3. But I highly doubt you'll see any server merges anytime soon. It's just really bad for business, showing the world your game is failing, which is exactly what they'll be doing by introducing server merges now. Not that I believe they are actually failing.

More insight from an inside source (who I can't name ... but they have a clue) ... xfers will happen around 1.3 BUT will not be available to everyone until later. I don't know the criteria, and there is "active discussion" internally on just opening it up completely, but for now it looks like they're still not getting the message here.

And server merges? Those really aren't being considered. More likely they will just let people handle it themselves by doing xfers.

Unknown if they'll charge for xfers like WoW or allow free like Rift. Also unknown if Legacy level will xfer.