ATHEN PALADINS FORUMS (in remaking)

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:10 pm**

So, I finally built this new system, and, as i has now been running for almost one month, I think it's possible to say something solid about it. Maybe it will help someone to make his own system, especially with The Secret World and AO new engine coming out next year!

I'll progressively post pictures, links, information and comments about each component. This will take some time.

The goal was not to build an "OMGzor da system rulz da world! Ownz j00 all, lamerz" computer or the "geekest" one either. It was to build a very powerful, reliable and stable all-purpose system, able to handle "everything" in excellent or very good conditions.

In others words, no, you'll see no liquid-nitrogen-cooled-massively-overclocked CPU or triple SLI video stuff here. Yes, I know, disappointing!

That said, it's an expensive system. I broke the money pig. But, at home, I usually keep computers for years and years instead of changing / upgrading often and, in the end, it's less expensive.

So here are the components, that I'll describe and comment in the following posts with many links to information (work in progress):

- - CPU : Intel i7-2600K
  - Motherboard: Asus P8Z6-V PRO
  - RAM: 12GB ( 3 x 4 GB) Kingston HyperX T1 Black DDR3 PC12800 (edit: +one module 4GB added to the kit to keep dual channel of course, so 16GB)
  - "Hard Disk" for system: SSD (Solid State Drive) Crucial M4 64GB
  - Hard Disk for the rest: Western Digital Caviar Black 750 GB (more will be added but I wanted to test SSD disks at home first)
  - CPU Cooler: "water" cooling mono-bloc Antec Kühler H2O 920
  - Graphic card: Asus ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280M (GeForce GTX 570 1,25 GB memory)
  - Computer case: Cooler Master ATCS 840 black (with removable motherboard tray: my back says thanks)
  - Power supply: Antec High Current Pro HCP-850 850 watts
  - Keyboard Logitech G510 programmable
  - Mouse: Logitech G500 that I already had (programmable too although I don't use it ATM)
  
  - Monitor: 27 inches Asus VK278Q
  
  - OS: Windows 7 64 bits (+Linux Ubuntu to be installed on dual boot)
  
  - DVD writer / player: my "old" Samsung SE-S224Q on USB (I kept it as it's just fine)
  
  - a sound card instead of the motherboard chip and a Blue-Ray thingy: I'll see later, not sure.

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

Some first pictures, more to come with details.

I'll first make comments about the screen in a next post, as several of you are waiting for it.

Some of you were interested by this aspect: this is a real example of dual video sources display on the screen at screen-hardware level (PiP = Picture in Picture): AO + TV channel. Size and position of the PiP can be changed and main source / PiP source can be switched at any time.

The case and believe me it's huge

The "God's blessing" removable motherboard tray

The MB (click on thumbnail for big picture)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/apscreens/newcomp/ASUSVisualOblique.jpg

The CPU cooler

The water-block on the CPU

Video card... OMG 1kg...

Power supply

Power supply connectors and rails

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

The case
Cooler Master ATCS 840

So here is the case. Good news (for you if you want to buy it) is that the price seems to have dropped.

Pictures (the assembled system pictures will be taken this weekend and posted; note: some pictures may come from web sites):

Why did I pick that one?

Because I wanted a very large case, able to welcome any component of today and like in the future. And, yes, it's huge. You'll see that when I take and post pictures of the whole assembled system this weekend (hopefully) but you can already guess by the look of the pictures posted here.

I also wanted a relatively strict; clear looking case.

I also became a big fan of 200mm+... fans (if good ones ofc) since I could test the Antec "Big Boy" 200mm, and this case provides 3 of them, actually even 230mm, with impressing case cooling. A 120mm top-rear fan is also provided (which, in my case has been replaced with the Antec water-cooling H920.)

It's also possible to add a fan at the bottom of the case, plus 2 fans on the hard disk rack, and one external fan mounted on an air duct over the back of the cards. (None of them provided, although if you use a CPU cooler as mine, you have to remoie the top-rear fan and you can use it elsewhere.)

I was also seduced by the motherboard drawer, making assembling really easier and pleasant. No more broken back... Put the drawer on your desk, assemble comfortably, then push it into the case.

Another thing I like is the front panel is hidden at the top of the case and connectors are less exposed to dust.

But, honestly, you have a LOT of very good computer cases now. I considered many before choosing this one.

Lian-Li: many very nice cases, most of them overpriced despite a very or even extremely high building quality. But, in my opinion, the issue with Lian-Li is if you want to make a system that is not designed as the Lian-Li engineers want, you may encounter issues. (It seems they realized that and their last cases are more "flexible".) Also, fans are usually all 120mm or 140mm.

Corsair Obsidian 800D: it was my other possible choice. The MB drawer and the 230mm fans won though. Its new little brother, the Obsidian 650D looks nice too.

Clearly less expensive, the Antec Twelve Hundred (now V3), is huge, nice, with a lot of possible cooling. It's a very open case though so it could be a bit more noisy.

The Cooler Master HAF X is nice... if you like the "gamer" look... I don't really like it.

The Cooler Master (again) CM Storm Trooper is not yet released (I guess) but looks impressive, if you like the game look (better IMHO than the look of the HAF X). (Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzRCq6mZ ... r_embedded )

I couldn't have a real look at Silverstone's top models which look interesting on the paper.

Honestly, there are a lot of nice cases now, even at relatively low prices. Manufacturers have made a huge effort.

The reviews I link to will tell you more. Globally I agree with what is said, although the "calculations" about air cooling in one of them doesn't see to really hold water to me, as it simply forgets that the case is not totally closed!

I'll add the following comments:

- overall quality is great, slightly inferior on some points to Lian-Li more expensive top cases

- indeed the way the front panel is "plugged" onto the case is awkward but it's not a huge issue

- the side panels are told to be "thin" by some people. They look like this mostly because they are very large but it's true they could be a bit thicker. I have no issue with them but I might consider dampening them with a really dense material (not the stupid open-alveoles foams sold in computer shops).

- the whole system is pretty silent, more on that in another post

- one drawback: ths package has not been upgraded since 2.5" SSD became more common (everything is relative) and no 2.5" adapter is provided. Cooler Master makes them, but you have to order them as extra parts from their special store in the Netherlands. ( http://shop.coolermaster.nl/index.php ) Pictures and comment about this are posted in a message below in this thread.

- another drawback that really upset me: the MB tray cut-off that allows to easily mount back-plates for CPU coolers without removing the MB hasn't been updated for Sandy Bridge MB's. So it's not wide enough, slightly. If you are a bit careful you can still not totally tighten the MB and slip the back-plate between the MB and the drawer, and then tighten the screws. Ok, this is really a nonsense. Still, because of all the other qualities of the case, I decided to live with that. I assume at some point Cooler Master will chnage that. (If it happens, I'll order a new drawer.)

- Due to the size of the case, some cables may be a bit short and it's sometimes impossible to make the "walk around" in a pretty way; you have to go for the straight line.

- Last but no least: don't make the same error I made, used to les silent cases from the past: don't assemble "approximately" for more than a short duration just "to see how it goes". Assemble well as soon as possible. I wasted time searching for the source of a vibration: it was just because I put the MB drawer in and didn't tighten the screws well. Once fixed, the system became very silent. How stupid of me!

Reviews, with which I mostly agree:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha ... eview.html

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=61

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/859/1/

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/6 ... aging.html

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

The Monitor: 27 inches Asus VK278Q

http://uk.asus.com/Display/LCD_Monitors/VK278Q/

I decided I would go for the big picture with a 27 inches screen. I previously was on a 22 inches.

Note that the resolution of most 27 inches screen is not higher than the one of top 24 inches. In this case it's 1920x1080 (16:9 ratio) but, definitely, to my taste, it's more comfortable especially for reading as the characters are genuinely bigger (and you can easily set them even a bit bigger in Win 7).

So, why did I pick this one?

I'm used to high quality screens for work, such as overpriced Eizo and Barco (Barco has nothing to do with normal monitors). At home, I wanted a very good all-purpose screen and this is the issue everyone encounters due to current technologies!

Currently, LCD panels come in various technologies and none of these technologies is "perfect" for everything. Mostly, "TN" panels have theoretically better response speeds (fast video games, and, to some degree, fast videos in general) while "IPS" panels offer theoretically a better image quality and viewing angles but slower speed. Thanks God, even if it's still true, all panels improved a lot and the best TN ones can now offer very nice all-purpose solutions. It's the result that counts, period.

First I was interested in an Iiyama (yes there are two "i" at the beginning) 27 inches ProLite B2712HDS-B1. Reasonably priced, coming with an adjustable stand, made by a manufacturer that had a good reputation (I had several CRT Iiyama monitors and they were nice). What discouraged me was the lack of clear statement regarding dead pixels policy: Iiyama says they will replace a screen if it has "many" dead pixels... how many is "many"?! And what about only one dead bright pixel but very visible? (Of course, some rules and regulations also apply but they are a bit vague.) The links to the documents supposed to supply information didn't work. A form on the web site to send messages didn't work. I emailed twice them and got no answer. Last thing, they are supposed to offer one extra warranty year if you register when you buy the screen... but the form didn't exist and they say to email them instead... enough already. The screen is maybe excellent but I didn't feel like going any further; maybe in your own countries, it will be different.

So I wandered a bit. I couldn't get enough information about 27 inches by Viewsonic which is normally a good brand. I was pondering about a Samsung when I found the Asus...

... well my 22 inches screen is an Asus. When I got it, to replace a Belinea 19" LCD in emergency, I posted on our forums that I was not totally happy: luminosity was not homogenous enough to my taste and also the buttons for settings were difficult to find, inside an aluminum-like bar with almost invisible labels above them, which is somewhat an issue when each button got several functions depending on what you already pressed. After years with it, I have to admit that the homogeneity never posed real issues (I was just used to professional screens, I guess) and the monitor proved to be perfectly reliable and performing well. So I decided to have a -cautious- look at the Asus 27 inches...

What made me look at the Asus was also that, at work, we discovered recently a new 24" Asus, the PA246Q, aimed at the professional market but way cheaper than usual products. And, after many tests, the PA246Q proved to be pretty close to an entry-level Eizo for like 1/3 of the price. (498 euros vs 1300 euros or so). I thought that this was maybe a good sign about quality philosophy for the top lines from Asus. (Note that the PA246Q, with its IPS panel, would be IMHO, a bit slow for fast games.)

So I looked at the Asus VK/VE 278Q and finally, well, I guess, the word is ... bingo! At least for the monitor I got.

How it performs

First, let's say that VE and VK have the same panel (theoretically) and are the same screens, except that the VK offers a 2 Megapixels webcam incorporated in the screen frame (slightly twistable up and down). I got a VK because the VE was sold out. (And I immediately disconnected the webcam.)

It uses LED back-lighting. You may thing this means there is a big matrix of LED's behind the panel but no. LED's are on the edges. This is why LED monitors are not necessarily better than traditional back-lighting monitors. In this case, though, it's fine.

The screen came with zero dead pixel and it's just plug and play. Just connect it, all fine.

Except that, as almost every screen, it's much too bright when you get it, and you have to seriously lower the brightness. (On the 0-100 scale of the setting, I set it to 43ish.) The factory settings is around 300 candelas brightness which is insane unless you plan on using the screen under California summer sunlight. Screens for professional use are set around 120-130 candelas.

Color balance is surprisingly good, as well and contrast and gamma, without setting or tweaking anything, at least on the screen I got. It's really unusual for a product that is not supposed to be a professional equipment. The drawback is that, despite of many possible settings covering a wide range of possibilities, if you are in search for the “perfect image”, you won't do much better unless you can use a color measurement device and can create a color profile a (but TBH, on my screen at least, you don't really need to).

Using a X-rite (http://www.xrite.com) measurement device from work, I could measure a real contrast of 1:980 which is excellent (a Barco doesn't do much better on this specific point). The values advertised for contrast like :10000 or even 1:100000 are jokes implying the back-lighting of the panel varies globally to reach those values, which doesn't make much sense if there are very different zones on the image, like for example a relatively dark room with a window open on a springtime landscape. The average values for modern LCD monitors are around 1:850.

I measured color fidelity too, with the DeltaE94 method (difference between the color “sent” by the graphic card and the one actually displayed. Details on http://white.stanford.edu/manuals/ISET/ ... taE94.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_difference). A DeltaE94 below 7 for a given color is considered acceptable. A DeltaE94 below 3 is considered almost perfect, at least visually for everyday use. Without any setting, the Asus VK278Q screen offered a DeltaE94 around or below 3 for almost all colors, with an exception for bright green which reaches 6ish. A few colors were above 3 but, except the bright green at 6ish, all were still under 4 DeltaE94 . This is just very nice. With calibration, everything is at 2 or under 2, with two exceptions: dark blue and bright green at 2.8-3ish, bright green's DeltaE94 being a bit higher than dark blue's. Just excellent. I didn't expect that at all. I just hope all the monitors are similar to mine!

As far as I can measure response time (the time for the monitor to fully erase an image), I measured roughly 7ms (5-6 on a bright background, 7-8 on a dark one). Nevertheless I can't make very accurate measurements so it's -/+ 1ms or so. I tested AO and the Dreamworld engine (AoC, TSW) like this, and there is no issue at all I think. On faster games, you could use the menu and set the “Trace Free” value to something between “not much” and 40ish. In which case, the screen will behave like a 2ms screen it seems (a rare value actually, except for marketing departments). Above 40ish, you get reverse ghosting though.

The evenness of the screen is fine for a non-professional monitor, even on a uniform background.

The screen offers 5 color modes (including the sRGB mode, the theoretical standard for development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB.), each one being customizable (some modes don't offer full customization though, for technical reasons). Switching modes is performed by the on-screen menu or directly by buttons under the screen edge. On the other hand, you can’t create another color mode from nothing. Each mode can be reset to default settings.

Many functions are available, including a Picture in Picture function, several input standards too.

- This is a real example of dual video sources display on the screen at screen-hardware level (PiP = Picture in Picture): AO + TV channel. Size and position of the PiP can be changed and main source / PiP source can be switched at any time.
  
  Connections:
  
  From left to right:
  1 DisplayPort
  2 HDMI-IN port
  3 DVI port
  4 VGA port
  5 Audio Line-in port
  6 Earphone-out port
  7 USB-IN port (Only available for model VK278Q)

I described here, answering a question from Hyde, the way to switch sources http://www.athenpaladins.org/forums/vie ... 905#p51905.

Watching movies is OK, although a high quality TV set will be better. The screen (and I guess no computer screen ATM) doesn't offer sophisticated scaling functions from SD to High definition, so you'll have to do that on the video card for best results.

Last thing, the buttons are much easier to find and operate than on my old Asus screen. Still I dislike multifunction buttons... but all screens are like that.

Now two drawbacks

The monitor stand is a shame: almost no movement is allowed and you can't set the height at all. Come on... this is not a cheap monitor! It's acceptable but nothing more. As for myself, for specific reasons, I anyhow have to use a mount arm, so the problem is solved... except such arms are expensive and not necessarily pretty. http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/ ... fault.aspx

The global look and shiny plastic finish are very standard, although well done. You may dislike that a bit but you can also try to see the bright side and assume Asus put most of the money into display quality.

Bottom line:
So, I can say I’m really happy with that screen. It goes beyond my expectations. I pray for all the screens in this series to be like mine. It's a very nice monitor.

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

reserved

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

reserved

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm**

reserved

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:28 pm**

What is the procedure for switching (not PIP'ing) the video input on the monitor? I'm looking for a good monitor that has a front pushbutton source switch so I can set up a development PC.

Posted: **Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:03 pm**

Hyde wrote:What is the procedure for switching (not PIP'ing) the video input on the monitor

There are 7 buttons under the screen that you can "feel" well with your finger (contrary to the ones on my 22" Asus). The 6th button from the left (or second from the right after the bigger power / sleep button) allows you to circle through video sources: one pression moves you to next source, with the name of the source briefly displayed on the screen. The first time you press, it displays the name of the source currently being used; the second time sends you to "next" source.

Sources are explored in this order, starting with the one you're currently using:
VGA
DVI
HDMI
DisplayPort
and then VGA again, etc.

The time between two sources is roughly 1 - 1.5 second.

This is of course also doable in the On-screen menu display.

If there is no signal on a connector, the screen doesn't stay stupidly black and displays a clear message like "No VGA signal". So you can make the difference between no signal sent (or no device plugged) and a "black" signal.

Here are the connectors under the screen:

From left to right:
1 DisplayPort
2 HDMI-IN port
3 DVI port
4 VGA port
5 Audio Line-in port
6 Earphone-out port
7 USB-IN port (Only available for model VK278Q)

Please note that you can't use DVI and HDMI at the same time for PiP, as DVI and HDMI share the same components to some degree on most monitors for cost reasons. You can still switch a source plugged on DVI and one on HDMI. It's using them at the same time for PiP that is not possible.

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:57 am**

The 6th button from the left (or second from the right after the bigger power / sleep button) allows you to circle through video sources: one pression moves you to next source, with the name of the source briefly displayed on the screen. The first time you press, it displays the name of the source currently being used; the second time sends you to "next" source.

To be sure I'm clear:

- you're watching a source
- you press the button
- it displays the name of the source on the screen
- you press the button AGAIN (it's the only time you have to press it twice)
- it switches to "next" source according to the list I posted and the name of the new source is displayed
- you press the button
- it switches to "next" source again as just above
- etc. in a loop

If you press the button while the name of the source is displayed, it switches to next source.
You have to press the button twice (display name then switch) only if you have been watching a source long enough for its name to disapear; when you chain press, you immediately switch.

Gah... was I clear?!

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:57 am**

What did your new computer cost you all in all, Chris ?

Very very nice spec!:)

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:01 pm**

Hundfu wrote:What did your new computer cost you all in all, Chris ?
Very very nice spec!:)

As I had to buy a few accessories etc (more on that when I post the details and comments on each component), the total cost is a bit under 2 000 euros with VAT (Value Added Tax: the tax that applies to all goods in Europe for the final consumer), so 1 672 euros or so without VAT. This is roughly 2800 and 2300 USD. As I said, it's an expensive system (looted the money pig... Piggie will need a while to recover...) but designed to last for years and years.

Prices are as follows (with European VAT - multiply prices by 0.836 to remove VAT):
Crucial M4 64 GB SATA Revision 3.0 99,99 €
Asus ENGTX570 DCII/2DIS/1280M (GeForce GTX 570 1,25 GB) 342,99 €
Intel Core i7 2600K 275,99 €
Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Revision B3) 177,49 €
Cooler Master ATCS 840 229,90 €
Antec HCP - 850W 179,89 €
Antec Kühler H2O 920 97,99 €
Western Digital Caviar Black SATA Revision 3.0 - 750 GB - 64 MB cache 54,99 €
Logitech G510 89,90 €
Logitech G500 52,90 € (I had it so I didn't buy it)

RAM Kingston HyperX T1 Black DDR3 3 x 4 GB PC12800 76 €
(edit: +one module 4GB added to the kit to keep dual channel of course, so 16GB)
(I got this price because I knew the name of one of the main Kingston distributors in Europe which sells to you too if you ask; at the same time the public price was like 140ish euros. It seems that now, it's possible to find this memory kit for like 78-95 USD from Amazon and some other companies BUT with a new smaller radiator

It's not clear. Anyhow I'm glad I got the big fat heatsink version... which is not compatible with many CPU cooler due to its height... but it is with the Antec watercooling which takes no room around the CPU!)

Screen: Asus VK278Q 362,90 €

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:44 pm**

I'm curious why you would go with 12 GB on a socket 1155 board? That chipset doesn't support tripple channel, so you need either 2,4,8,16,32gb in even pairs.

Posted: **Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:57 pm**

You're correct; I forgot to mention that (well I would have mentioned it in the details later).
That was because the RAM modules were only available as a pack of 3 at that time. They will be available separately in a moment. And the pack was insanely cheap for the quality offered. I'll complete it later.

That said, TBH, the difference odd vs even in performance is little, as the bandwidth on Sandy Bridge system and global speed are already very high.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:09 pm**

Little bad surprise... To make pictures of the system, I was waiting for a small accessory: Cooler Master didn't update the (nice) package coming with the case and there is no adapter for 2.5 inches devices such as SSD.
(The Corsair M4 in my case, which currently just laying in the 5.25 rack

)

5.25" devices are genuinely handled by the fast-lock push-button proprietary system of Cooler Master, while 3.5" hard disks are installed in anti-vibration screw-less brackets by Cooler Master too. (You see both systems on the pictures of the case.)

So I ordered a "universal" adapter from Lian-Li, allowing to install 2 x 2.5" devices in a 5.25 bay, and, for safety, I also ordered another no-name universal adapter looking different... Guess what.. none of them can be used with the fast lock system used by Cooler Master for 5.25" devices. No one, Cooler Master, Lian-Li, the resellers, etc. tells you about this.

It seems that the only solution, unless you want to search the World in the hope for a possible working adapter or customize an existing item, is to use... the Cooler Master SSD Bracket which fits in the 3.5" HD brackets... yes, there is one... except that CM doesn't tell you, that it's not on their web site but only on the separate site of the Cooler Master store which is in the Netherlands and that you have to discover.

It's here:

Ordered, waiting...

ATHEN PALADINS FORUMS (in remaking)

Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)

Re: Building the monster (a new computer for little me!)