Grrrr

[Chrisax]

Btw guys! What is the point of having 2 gfx cards?

Both ATI and Nvidia offer a 2-cards solutions or even more. (Up to 4 cards on some gigantic motherboards.)

Nvidia calls that "SLI" Scalable Link Interface http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface
ATI (AMD) calls that "Crossfire" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_CrossFire

In both cases, the cards AND the motherboard itself must be compatible with either SLI and/or Crossfire. (Usually with only one of the two.) It's specified somewhere. Being compatible with one of the two does NOT prevent the motherboard from working normally with ONE card of the other brand of course; it's just when you want to use two or more.

The interest is to make two cards or more calculate together for higher performance:
- two smaller cards can possibly outperform a single big one
- two big ones can create an overkill system

Theoretically the two cards don't have to be of the same model as long as they are SLI or Crossfire compatible...

Nevertheless, using two cards doesn't double performances. Let's say you can get like 25%-30% better compared to a card of the same model used alone. I varies depending on many things.

The other possible use is to improve performance on multi-screens configurations, and now with 3D screens (for which there is still almost no content at all.)

The counterpart is you need a motherboard AND a case with a LOT of space, a BIG power supply of high quality, and excellent cooling of the case. You also need to have no bottleneck in your system, like a weak CPU or not enough RAM.

And of course, it's pretty expensive.

This is not at all necessary for great performance. (Especially as frames per second are limited by monitors.) It's an extreme thing.

My 570 performs great with all games at very high / full options (unless those are made for "future" hardware of course).


Side note: I've been an ATI user for more than ten years (lucky enough to never have an issue with AO). But I had to be pragmatic and, in the range of equipment I wanted and for the games I played, Nvidia was a better choice and still is. This can of course change as it already did in the past.

[Chrisax]

(See my post just above too.)

Is this totally no go or?
I read a review of a pc similar to this from Medion aswell, that got very high scores.

http://www.medion.com/gb/electronics/pr ... amer_pc_32

There are several pc stores here who builds pc´s for ppl, with components you can chose, but when I try and build one with the options (looking at you guys stuff) it runs up in quite a lot, not thta I´m not willing slaugther "piggie" like Chris did, but maybe some of the stuff might be overkill!

The specifications are very nice but what really annoys me is they don't say what brand (or no-brand) they are using to make the system. Or did I miss it?

This can actually make a difference (reliability, final performance, warranty,...). For the level of equipment announced, the price sounds quite low. That's why I'd like to know what's inside.

Note that "Nvidia" for a card just means the chip is from Nvidia. (Same for AMD-ATI). It doesn't say who manufactured and designed the card.

Honestly their 2-cards thing is not necessary. Could possibly use a 570 instead of 2x 560 if it's less expensive. One 560 is fine though.
On the other hand, with the price of RAM at the moment, I'd likely go for more than 8GB.


Their price, VAT included, is 1,129 euros (939 UK Pounds).

To find an easy comparison with other European countries, I went to another UK site (found on Google because I have no clue about assemblers as I buy components and build things myself), and I also went to a French site I buy many things from for my brother who lives in Paris (and is totally computer-clueless); I even buy things from them myself occasionally when I stay in France long enough because their site is extremely clear, they deliver really fast (so the parcel won't arrive when I'm on the plane again), and they work well with good prices even if not the lowest ones.

Both provide a list of the components used with the names and references.

For similar prices (and almost equal VAT's for the French one: 19.6%) this is what they offer:

UK:
Aria pc (http://www.aria.co.uk and http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Range/ for assemble gaming machines):

• £869.99 / 1,047.39 euros
  http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Ra ... ctId=48875
  
  £1199.99 / 1,444.50 euros
  http://www.aria.co.uk/Systems/Gaming+Ra ... ctId=48882

France:

• Materiel.net (http://www.materiel.net and http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur/#prods for assembled machines l):
  1,199 euros
  Translated by Google from the original in French:
  http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... FQ59WoEz8Q
  (You'll get a warning from materiel.net saying there is an attempt of ID fraud: it's just that something in their site detects Google translate as a URL usurpation)

Scroll a bit or use the tabs to see hardware lists.

Maybe you can ask MEDION for what they put in their systems?

Now, you say that trying to buy components when trying to build a system like Hyde's or Bredin's (not counting mine) makes the money-pig explode?... Is it that bad in Denmark? Or did you try somewhere else?

Btw, this is my current pc, which I have been very happy with

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/docu ... r1002_uken

Uh... but this is a nice PC... The only issue is it's not designed at all for gaming and they put a relatively crappy (gaming-wise) video card in. Actually a Nvidia 230 in such a system cripples it for anything less than office applications and small games.


If you could add a good video card, it would work nicely, even until you buy something bigger if you want to.

For middle+ video cards, you usually need like 25 centimeters free horizontally between the slot opening in the case and any obstacle; make this 30 for high-end cards. (Manufacturers' site provide the length info; most stores forget it.) Also there must be enough room for correct air flow.

[Lasarina]

Thx Chris for explaining that, dont think I will need that then.

[Lasarina]

Now, you say that trying to buy components when trying to build a system like Hyde's or Bredin's (not counting mine) makes the money-pig explode?... Is it that bad in Denmark? Or did you try somewhere else?

What I meant was that when chosing components for a system built by the store from your chosings the price can rapidly go up high!

Those links looks pretty nice.

Think I´m gonna look a bit more and then try to decide what I should buy

Thx Again Chris for taking time to answer and spend so much time on it

[Hyde]

Nvidia also has a multi-card option called Physx. A Physx card (which can be pretty much any of their regular cards) can provide a lot of number crunching. IF the game supports Physx (a big if) then you can offload data processing to it. This is a way to use multiple cards without worrying about them being identical. Most games do not support it though, meaning it is a waste under those conditions.

You can do either a main card + a Physx card OR dual SLI main cards (or triple) + a Physx card.

This lets you keep an older card useful. Just don't make it TOO old, as a very old card being used for Physx (like a 8800GT for Physx and a 5x0 card for your main card) can actually slow things down.

Chris is right ... if you have a single card and call it "1x" speed, then dual cards will likely be around "1.3x" average (though in some cases can be well past "1.5x" speed). Triple cards will get you to "1.75x" maybe up to "2x". A triple card + matched Physx card, in a game supporting Physx, you can get around "2.5x".

It is DEFINITELY something mainly aimed at people with too much money and too much time. 99% of games will do perfectly fine with a single video card if you have a fairly modern one. These super-duper setups are for people running massive monitors, multiple monitors, 120Hz monitors, etc.

[Chrisax]

Grats and thanks to Hyde for thinking of Physx that I totally skipped in my mind.

Lasa, if you have a budget range for a new system (if you go that way), we can make a detailed suggestion (or suggestionS) for you.

Now, if you just want to upgrade your system, we would just need to now the distance between the slots openings and the next obstacle to know how long a card can be AND how much power the PSU can deliver (should be marked somewhere on it or in the manual, etc). And it will be easy to find a selection of good video cards.

[Bredin]

I have a 560 ti and am very happy with it.

[Lasarina]

Thx everyone, will post a setup later today. On my way to Sweden now, to go to the dentist.

[Chrisax]

I took the liberty to make a suggestion for you. This can of course be amended and changed in several ways. It's just to get a global idea.

I based the total price on the price you mentioned.
Nevertheless, this suggestion is probably a bit too expensive. I can be tuned down.

To get an European "Continental" price directly in euros, I used materiel.net site (in France) because I speak French better than German and Italian.... and I don't speak Danish at all, sorry... (Also the site was much faster and clearer to make a selection and a quote).
Edit: For God's sake I just realized NOW thet Denmark doesn't belong to the euro zone.... It's the Danish krone of course... and I have no excuse: I went to Denmark several times and I went to Copenhagen last Summer for a business dinner at Tivoli...

A DVD or Blue Ray is not included. A Samsung OEM DVD player-writer like a SH-S223C will be around 17 euros with VAT. (I tend to prefer external USB models so I can move them from comp to comp, just in case.)

12 GB RAM are included. And a 128 GB SSD. (Could do with a 64GB for system + just main applications and a big game)

The CPU is very nice and more powerful that yours, close to mine. (It's the one Hyde piecked.)
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/x86- ... ,2760.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/x86- ... ,2759.html

I skipped Western Digital Caviar Black hard drives for a Seagate Barracuda of a more "common" model because WD prices are totally inflated at the moment due to the floods in Thailand. (Seagate was less affected.)

The CPU cooler would be the genuine Intel one. It works more than decently.

• For something better
  Antec KUHLER H2O 620 Water Cooling System (the one Bredin picked) around 57 euros.
  http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA0MzY2
  For air cooling, the Thermalright Silver Arrow is excellent (no wonder it's often omitted in reviews: it would embarrass many other products) around 76 euros
  http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/ ... arrow.html

Prices in € (euros)  include a VAT of 19.6%
							VAT	no VAT
Intel Core i5 2500K					206.99	173.04
Asus P8Z68-V LX						102.99	86.10
Crucial M4 128 GB SATA Revision 3.0			154.99	129.57
Asus ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5 (GTX 560 Ti 1 GB)	228.99	191.44
Antec HCG - 750W					108.99	91.12
Seagate Barracuda SATA Revision 3.0 - 750 GB		94.99	79.41
Kingston Kit HyperX T1 Black DDR3 3 x 4 GB PC12800	79.99	66.87
Corsair Carbide 400R - Black				92.99	77.74

Total							1070.92	895.29

Corsair Carbide 400R - Black
(Click on thumbnails for full size picture)



http://www.corsair.com/pc-cases/carbide ... -case.html

Antec HCG - 750W
(Click on thumbnails for full size picture)

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjU5Mw==

Asus ENGTX560 Ti DCII TOP/2DI/1GD5 (GTX 560 Ti 1 GB)
(Click on thumbnails for full size picture)

http://uk.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/NVIDI ... OP2DI1GD5/

Asus P8Z68-V LX
(Click on thumbnails for full size picture)



http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_S ... P8Z68V_LX/

Intel Core i5 2500K

http://ark.intel.com/products/52210/Int ... _30-GHz%29

Crucial M4 128 GB SATA Revision 3.0

http://www.crucial.com/eu/store/partspe ... T128M4SSD2

Seagate Barracuda SATA Revision 3.0 - 750 GB - 32 MB cache


Seagate's site is not very clear, so I added the Google translation of materiel.net which is clearer (only this specific model is presented). If you get a URL usurpation message from materiel.net when you connect to the translation, just ignore it.
http://www.seagate.com/www/en-gb/produc ... rd_drives/

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... 5DfZDXE-9A

[Lasarina]

woo, thx Chris, thats some nice stuff. I have found a company here in Denmark that has won alot of tests and prizes in all sorts of computer magazines and stuff. I will try to write here so you can an idea of what they have to offer. They have put together some stuff with some options to upgrade some of it.

And yes Denmark havent made the "mistake" yet to join the Euro

Like I wrote in earlier post I dont think I can manage to assemble a system myself anymore, thats why I have looked at some company/store that assembles for ppl not able to themselves! Ofc it then become more exspensive, but I can live with that. Nobody do anything for free right?

Anyways brb with setup I have looked at.

[Lasarina]

MB - http://www.gigabyte.dk/products/page/mb ... -ud3rev_10

CPU - i7-2700K 4x3.50GHz (Turbo 3.90GHz)

CPU cooler is some special Scythe cooler, not specified what model!!??

Ram - Kingston HyperX 16 GB DDR3-1600

HD - Seagate 500GB SATA3 Fluid 6Gb/s 7200rpm

SSD - Kingston 120GB V+200 SSD SATA3

GFX - Nvidia GF GTX 570 1280MB DDR5

Case is something they have designed themselves!! The one I have chosen have extra cooling and noice reducing! I know it wont tell you much! This is what they write about it. (Translated in google) : Stylish cabinet with extra cooling, alufront and noice reducing.Vision Phantom Silent enclosure has extra-thick sides, and the quality is top notch. There is additional cooling with low noise fans for a super good airflow, and the sides are lined with sound absorbing material.

PSU - Raidmax RX-850AE 80+

The offer also includes some DVD drive, soundcard and ofc Win 7 Home premium 64 including dvd

price is aprox 1.474 Euros

I know it can done cheaper, but wth

Does it sound ok ish or totally no go?
sry for missing link, but you nerds probably know what it is

[Bredin]

Looks very nice Lasa

I spent approx $1200 (USD) to build mine myself with some similar components, but where I shaved some cost for slightly lesser parts you did not, so it seems like a good deal money-wise.

[Chrisax]

Any chance you can give us a URL so we see what the company offers? (Google can still translate enough if necessary.)

I'm quite curious about the case BTW... As, in a part of my life, I worked in sound measurement and sound technology. (The funny thing is the dinner at Tivoli I mentioned in my previous post was with people from Brüel & Kjær, a Danish company, one the leaders in Sound and vibration measurement.)



Lasa's list is in white; my comments are in blue.

MB - http://www.gigabyte.dk/products/page/mb ... -ud3rev_10 I was not a fan of Gigabyte due to past experience but so far it seems it works well today. This card is nevertheless loaded with features you don't need like a dual BIOS, and it's more expensive than the (just for example) Asus I listed, like +30 euros or so. In this price range, I would personally go for an Asus
P8Z68-M PRO (Revision B3, but all the ones sold now should be B3) http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_ ... 8Z68M_PRO/ It would be probably 10 more euros than the Gigabyte in this case.


CPU - i7-2700K 4x3.50GHz (Turbo 3.90GHz) Perfectly fine

CPU cooler is some special Scythe cooler, not specified what model!!?? Need a model. Can be good or average. Anyhow les interesting (but more or less) than the watercooling systems we all picked so far and to a Thermalright Silver Arrow. But can be good and fine.

Ram - Kingston HyperX 16 GB DDR3-1600 Perfectly fine in itself BUT with a i7 you don't need an even number of modules (2, 4, etc.) but a multiple of 3 (3, 6, etc.), at least ideally. This is how the CPU is made. And 16 GB means this is likely 4 modules. This won't make a big difference, but it's a bit pointless in a high-end system to pay no attention to such details.

HD - Seagate 500GB SATA3 Fluid 6Gb/s 7200rpm Most likely OK but need a model to know the details, the cache etc.

SSD - Kingston 120GB V+200 SSD SATA3 That's the old series, even if still sold and it has never been great. It's still of course much better than any mechanical hard drive but it's inferior to a Crucial M4 globally (it's more a competitor of the old Crucial M300) and unless they got stocks to get rid of, it's not really less expensive. The new Kingston series (Hyper X SSD) is totally awesome but very expensive. Advice: go Crucial M4 series

GFX - Nvidia GF GTX 570 1280MB DDR5 A name ?! That's too easy to just mention the GPU. It's like saying "a leather couch". It can be anything and when it's not specified, I'm always very afraid they go for a cheap solution claiming it's something really good. This is an essential part of the system and one of the main sources of failure; it has to be taken VERY seriously.

Case is something they have designed themselves!! URL?

PSU - Raidmax RX-850AE 80+ Ahh... me and the PSU's... picky guy... TBH I never had a Raidmax inmy hands. Nevertheless, it looks like some relatively cheap but well packaged unit. After getting information, it's a device made by Andyson so nothing really wonderful. It also seems (?) that in the past Raidmax presented some models based on a good PSU, and then released another cheap PSU under the same name. But I know nothing about this myself. No tests available, so-so reputation. Looks like this series is nevertheless the best they ever made.
I would avoid it and go for Antec or Seasonic, or Corsair. There is no point in buying a 1400 euros system and trying to save 40 or 50 euros on the PSU which is essential.

The offer also includes some DVD drive, soundcard and ofc Win 7 Home premium 64 including dvd The motherboard already got a decent sound chip. So unless they put a really good sound card in, it's just a commercial argument.

[Bredin]

As, in a part of my life, I worked in sound measurement and sound technology.

Funcom has a "sound measurement and sound technology" department??

[Lasarina]

woahh, there goes my hapiness

hmm, that doesn´t sound too good :/

Many of the components are not specified more than I wrote, here is te link to the store!

http://www.mm-vision.dk/produkter/vispc ... e=pcsystem