Bad news: New Org cities will be MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE!

[Chrisax]

Bad news...

The new cities after merge will very likely be much more expensive.

It's quite silly because at the time AO has less people it will be harder for orgs to pay for the upkeep! The reason give by Genele (FC) is that he wants to have more large orgs and less small ones... That doesn't work. If they want less orgs, then they have to change how aliens raids are done so people won't create farm orgs.

Still, in the new cities, after the base cost, the more buildings you have, the more you pay. And the base cost is already 100M per month! (We pay currently 101M for AP per month and 53M for GoA)

I'm not sure yet but this means our monthly expense for city could maybe double.

Like we could have to pay 300M/month. (?)

More info asap. But we will need the help of everyone.

Here are some pictures of the large city plot (always the same): convenient and without creativity. (Thanks to Dagget for the pictures from Testlive; he saved me a lot of time )

[noobas]

You should probably look into charging a tax on all persons with 220's in org.

something like:

If you have a 220, then 10m /month

If you have 2 220's, 15m/month

If you have 3+ 220's 20m month

And, everyone has to pay, period.

That will significantly change the funding structure.

[Elrojo]

Its a slippery slope then really. There are just too many factors and grey areas for it to work.

I'd suggest if nothing else, remove GoA from the roster. It was typically the NW org and a back up raid place. However, I doubt its really needed these days. The easier thing to do would be to have one outdoor city and then if people want to raid a lot they can pitch in a make their own iCity. There is not penalty now with removal of shops. But essentially, if you want to farm more, then you need to invest in it yourself or with friends.

Alternatively/as well as, you could also just start small raid groups for cash. So if you want the rights to lower the cloak then you have to attend 1 raid a week that raises money for the org. You can do what ever, but it needs to be recorded and the money given to an officer so it can be verified. Easiest thing would be raiding pande/Alb/DBs/APFs. Or think outside the box. 2x220's can run a 5 man ado bran quest for paying members. 10mil a dyna kill, 100mil the whole raid. 2x 220's can get it done in 2.5hrs tops.

[Chrisax]

Thanks for worrying and input but I didn't post this to make anyone panic, just to call everyone's attention and point out that we may have to do some money making things sometime. (Maybe donations will be enough too.) On the other hand, selling services as an org is not the way to go; AP is not an org of mercenaries. Selling items is fine.

We can't let GoA go for many reasons I can't develop here now but one of them is the possible separation between T7 wars and all others after the merge, because of negotiations on warbot with RK1.

No panic: we are just brainstorming a bit.

[Boomer]

Please, Mercanaries is a distasteful phrase. I prefer Private Military Contractor.

[Elrojo]

regarding selling services i just mean privately.

These days the city is functional really only for City raids, and rarely HQ buffs.

Thus we could classify the population as 2 types.

1) Those who use the city for raids

2) Those who use the org to help progress for quests/loot etc (not City related)

Those who fall in category 1, can only be promoted to the required rank for shields if they contribute to its funding. So it should be a % of the monthly upkeep depending on how many ppl are raiding.

It would be individuals responsibility to either organise fund raising activies, or even re-invest some profits from bot sales back into the city.

The point being if you want to use the city you need to help to pay. TBH increase in profits or not, we should really require people to help out. It may be as little as 10mil a month, which is like 1 DB. Its really not too much to ask, given currently few people are paying and many are getting rich off them.

[noobas]

I fully agree with rojo.

Keep in mind a few things though:

1. As cities cause a massive drain on the new economy (that is the point... no sense in hiding it) credits will be at a premium, while all items for purchase/sale, will not be. For example: NOW: 300 CC = 750m 6 months from now 300 CC=650m, 2 years from now, 300 CC = 450m

2. Credit MAKING will be the prefered method to make money - since, methods to make credits will still operate in the same capacity. This means: 1. having a tradeskiller will be extremely useful, 2. statics farming for whatever will be more in demand.

So, the easy way to make credits will shift from a player economy to a vendor economy, comp lit based and the more versatile your tradeskills are, the better you'll do. For example, farming statics for nano/health coils, tradeskillable gems, metals, etc, building on the fly, and reselling once arriving in a city.

that means: high DPS to chew thru mobs, or mezzing your way though a dungeon will yield good results.

TSing pearls, perfectly set rings, and health/nano coils will basically be equateable with farming gold. Selling stuff to the player base will always be a valuable service, but, since prices WILL drop, and the emphasis is on having the credits to meet the demands of the city- player sales will drop significantly, and likely very quickly, until, as FC has stated, the small orgs cannot afford to operate.

Simply put, 1-2 man operations just won't have enough hours in the day to farm what is required to keep a city (with full benefits) up and operational.

[tommytanker]

We could also do raids for the org, where 100% or even 50% of the money goes to AP or the people in the raid.
For example Mitaar farms, tnh runs, db runs, etc.

[noobas]

We could also do raids for the org, where 100% or even 50% of the money goes to AP or the people in the raid.
For example Mitaar farms, tnh runs, db runs, etc.

Over time, any raid that provides wealth transfer opportunities will become less and less beneficial. The amount garnered from loots sales and LR sales will drop, while the price of the city rent will stay the same.

Therefore, credit creation will become the best way to make credits as they are draining from the economy.

I think the best system will be credit creation via dungeon TSing.

I've heard an omni engineer made 1.4B in a week doing that. I don't think thats unreasonable. The trick would be to have a solid system in place, like:

Anytime anyone does a inf mission, you bring a empty BP, and loot every chest for coils+metal trinkets, then everyone has a designated Tser, so say like 5 people providing to each org TSer, the org TSer spends a couple hours/month building jewlery to sell back to the vendor, and the proceeds go to AP/GoA.

could easily be bringing in 100m per org TSer per month. That would pretty much keep AP totally flush with cash.

[StuPseN]

Sorry for giving my comments but I think it's mostly wise if all pays 10 mill every month, everyone should be able to afford that
and the ones who is raiding in the city is paying 20 mill a month.

so the ones who is not raiding is paying a small amount of money every month and they are still allowed to tag along in org raids of cause, and the ones who want's to farm is paying a little bit more since they are the ones who is going to gain bots from it as well, it's only fair if the ones who is raiding is paying a little bit more and with the number of people there are in AP it should not be a problem to get the 300M a month really, I'm not entirely sure how we should "collect" the money every month because I don't think it's a smart idea to say that if you got 2 220 chars then you have to pay more, because one person is still one person, he should not have to "farm" twice as much just because that he got another 220 char, like I'm sure that there are some there even got 7+ 220 chars so that person would have to pay 70M+ every month ? not quite fair after my opinion.

so.
ALL AP's "can have a min level" pays 10M every month to "general/pres" or add it to upkeep with a comment
the ones who is raiding is paying 20M every month, same way as above.

how does that sound ?


StuPseN

[Lasarina]

Just saying! It will not be a problem for me to pay 10 mill every month, but many players don´t have that kind of creds to afford every month. 10 mill is a serious amount for many none 220 player. It would ofc be colll if everybody could chip in, but I don´t see how, atleast not that amount.

[StuPseN]

that's also one of the reasons why I said that it can have a min level if needed of cause.

I do not expect some level 100 people to pay 10 mill a month really, but ect some 180+ should have it after my opinion otherwise can I help out if needed, that's not a problem, but yea a min level should most likely be in place. but it's more about the idea behind it I'm interested in if it could work or ?

[Chrisax]

Side note: before everything, I'll try to get the final and accurate facts and figures about the new cities.

So we can see:

- what we need regarding cities and buildings (or options)
- what the cost for what we want is
- what the theoretical/mathematical cost per member (doesn't mean that people have to pay it, it's just to get an idea) is
- determine a security amount that must always be on the banks (we never drop below this amount)
- determine the initial effort to get that amount
- determine how much we need to get on average per month (cost + a bit more for safety)

Then we can decide on appropriate measures. Keep in mind that totally "free" donations worked well, and actually came from a lot of different people, with very different amounts too though.

Input welcome still ofc.

[noobas]

You could implement a fee per raid plus monthly tax.

Thats probably a really easy way to keep everyone in the loop.

People who use the city the most, pays more, people who don't use the city, but enjoy the benefits and everythign else, pay to retain the luxury.


monthly tax of ~5m per member if no 220's, 10m/month if 220's isn't unreasonable, and should be affordable by everyone
1m/month for froobs

then something like 5m/per raid.

That would also make people want to take full advantage of ground+ship. Also, in this way, it'll be less beneficial to be ground raiding, and much more beneficial to be ground+ship raiding.

[tommytanker]

Junk does sell good, from a lvl100ish rk mish a froob can easily get 500k up to 1m by selling shopfood just in one transaction. That is with a froob CL skill!

Note: if you plan to loot shopfood bring at LEAST 2 bags per mish


I agree with Noobas, we should do 5m per raid - person that disables could be on charge of getting the creds into bank.