Booster, Eng. Mines, Instanced org cities, Profs. Rebalance

[Chrisax]

Friday with Means - January 23rd, 2009

Upcoming

Synch Issues and new provider sor servers:

We have for some time been working on a more permanent solution to the "synch/lag" issues that seems to be randomly affecting players for some time. Within the next month we should have test dimensions up and running at another provider that will hopefully perform better during peak hours. Setting the game up itself isn't difficult, as we publish new servers etc all the time, it is the arcane art of monitoring/error reporting/billing/support tools for AO that is difficult. Either way I am very much looking forward to examining results from this new server/network environment. If all looks well we will move to the new environment as soon as humanly possible. Of course I will let you know when.


PVP Nanos:

Some adjustments have been made to the Fear nanos based on feedback. Again...these will go in when we can agree they are usefull but not overpowered.


Engineer Mines:

Engineers will be able to place two mines at a time on the Battlestation. Mines will have a "Lifetime" of 8 minutes. The two mines that can be placed will be AOE snare (-2200 runspeed/30 seconds at 220) and AOE Nanodrain (-10000 at 220). Any combination of the two types can be placed. Mines will be visible by your own side, making it easier for other engineers to place theirs. Mines will be armed as soon as they are placed. I was hoping to take care of these myself but time has not allowed me to get to them. Any delay is entirely my fault. Metaing is now on it and we barely missed getting them into the version going to test this weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of testing and feedback on this addition.


The Booster:

I would like to express my personal thanks to those of you who have been so helpfull on TestLive providing feedback on the new playfields and quests. The adjustments made to the content have been essential to the improvements I've seen in the last few weeks. I have decided to delay the booster an additional two weeks to allow time for the same process of review for the final two team instances and final raid encounter. These are playfields that are going to be played multiple times and deserve the best review process we can provide...if they don't pass muster in the TestLive phase they will get the redesign they need.



New in the not so distant future:

Instanced Org Cities:

Macrosun has taken it upon himself to create the instanced cities that have been long requested by the player base. This will be difficult...but he feels he is making good progress. The instanced nature of these playfields will make it impossible to have player owned shops...but the city bonuses and alien attacks should now be available to everyone. This is a long way from completion but at least work has begun on this issue that has been with us for a long time. "Normal" cities will still retain value due to their size and their player shops...but more AI content will now be available to all. I'm hoping we can also grant fr00b access to the org HQ's at the same time.


Profession Balancing Act:

Certain professions currently need more attention than others. We will be conducting a thorough profession review early this year, sharing our findings and acting on them in an upcoming profession "tweak" patch.


I'll be in Copenhagen again this weekend and the Skåne area. Thanks for all the Danes and Swedes who made last weekend so much fun. If anyone gets the chance to go to the Copenhagen Zoo it is fantastic...I haven't had that much fun in a long time. I'll be there again this Sunday so we can see the Elephants we missed last time.

Cheers,

Colin "Means" Cragg

[Rulzern]

Woot!

[Sillanto]

omg.........

Instanced city's = citys are going to drop in price rapidly, Which will be both good and bad, good for those who want to raid but bad for those who own farm city's currently.

Froob's in org hq = access to the ts machines Should prove useful for twinking and orbital strikes but not much more.

Engi mine... well what can i say Sounds good if it works and doesnt affect your own side like the auras use to . Would be excellent to mix nano and snare and finally be able to catch someone to pvp on your terms, however only 2 will mean having to place really carefully
Cant wait to test these out!


And a profession rebalance :/ sounds good on paper but how practical is it. and how much room for making things worse or just powering half the professions up again.

[faros1978]

Hmmm...nice content it seems. Instanced city means what ? does this mean that 2-3 ppl can make personal raids at the same time in different instances? Just curious.
Prof rebalance , i want to see that , what are they gonna change or add.interesting !!

[noobas]

The nice thing about a prof rebalance is that there are records about prof vs other

forexample, because all chars have a duel wins and duels loss, if you look at those numbers statistically there will be significant evidence as certain toons being stronger than others.

Especially when you look at them split by TL groups. I think it will be an interesting amendment that we will see more defences for certain profs and more offence for others, it may not be so simple, in that there will likely be more obscure changes, like nanos which will appear to be useless for 95% of the population on RK2, but only 5% will see the value, like when soldier gets a 120 RE buff, many disregarded it as the more futile advancement for the soldier prof, but few thought long and hard about what it could mean. And of course those few are attempting to use the perks against previously unperkable profs, and attempting to make use of that nano it the most extreme circumstances...

I dunno, rebalancing the profs will always nerf someone, but, there are a lot of profs which are given so many more treats than others, so probably we wil see some changes to profs which show high ability to succeed even with poorer than average AI level, level, and equipment... enforcer and doctor might be a good example of this, the toolsets for these toons are particularly strong against nearly all other profs.

[Alphacenta]

Balancing profs over numbers and statistics gotten through for example BS is the most retarded thing EVER.

I still remember sil saying that agents are the "statistically best performing profession in pvp, and their pvm damage is ok". Yes, we are great pvp-damage-farmers with our AS. But does one AS per 11s make a prof the best out there? No it just means they are good damage farmers in mass pvp, it says nothing about their defenses or playstyle or actual alpha power or solo performance.

[noobas]

I agree... sort of.

whats the best prof at 170?

care to take a look at the average agent's duel record at 170?

how bout enforcer at 220, or doc at 220?

how about shade at 220? how about shade at 150?

how about trader at level 21?

Obviously every one of those is going to have some wierd bias twist. Like, even though most 220 shades really suck hard, most people who make a 220 shade know a lot about the game. so likely they have made that shade specifically, and have outfitted him with more expensive equipment than most other average toons.

Or, take a 170 agent for example, revanagent (sp?) duel record is like 147 -3.. and most other 170 agent have a winning record (that one is exceptional)

or how about a 21 trader, or whatever, anyway, the point is, is that some toons will have exceptional records, and some won't but PROFS will have a better record than average and that is what I'm talking about. CH and a capped AS at 170 is the the best offense and best defense available, hence, that is why the agent at 170 is the king PVP'er at 170.

I don't think BS kills are a very good indicator, for the record. BUT, prof vs other prof in duels, over several thousand repetitions should give an example of which profs win.

Yes, I agree, surovi is making the NT class look bad, but, don't forget toons like raginmage, who is pwning all before him.

[Rulzern]

I have to agree with noobas here, agent is a _viable_ prof in PvP, as opposed to many others, you'll always think your prof is at some disadvantage against all others until you have another prof at the same level doing the same thing. I can say that I get slaughtered by agents every time on my doc, does that mean my doc is useless? No, I can kill lots of other people, it just means that one prof has an advantage over me at that level. I doubt FC is going to make every prof have an equal chance against every other prof at every TL, but rather that profs that are consistently getting owned more than others will get a boost, or profs that generally own others more will get a nerf.

[Alphacenta]

I never said agent isn't a viable class to PvP with. It certainly is. It has a great weakness though, which is debuffs. In normal pvp, just about every debuff perk/nano/item/etc means a BIG chance of death, because we do not have an alternative defense to fall back on when everything goes wrong. Also since all the new hp adding items made it ingame, our perks are less effective compared to before. Of course that turns both ways - this added hp benefits agents a lot as well.

I also see you are both talking about TL5 agents. They are much much much better in pvp than a TL7 agent. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

For example there is less hp, meaning the perks which are almost the same perks as we TL7 agents have (we get to use The Shot in our alpha on top of what TL5s can use already) will do relatively more damage. You mentioned good TL5 agents can alphakill your doc without hotswaps. There is no way I'm killing a good TL7 doc without hotswaps to a Booster and/or Piercing Evil.

Less debuffs, for example no RI, no GTH, no stunlocking/initdebuffing enfos, no Red Dusk, no eNSD, no Beneficial Scourge, no Merciless nanodrain, et cetera.

Less damage.. we are using that exact same CH your 150 doc (or 170 agent) uses Rulzie, but then 70 levels higher and without healperks or debuff removals. Although more hp makes it a lot more effective to survive alphas with, it still only heals 10k.

Also good to keep in mind is that some professions that can give (both TL5 and TL7) agents a VERY hard time are almost nonexistent at TL5. Think of crats, MPs, engineers, shades.

You name it, a washlist of reasons why TL5 agents perform better than their TL7 counterparts. Not to mention that the sort of agent that rips Rulzie's 150 pvm'ish damage doc apart is usually a 170 pvp setup. I DOUBT you've been solo killed by a 150 pvm setup agent, hell, even a 150 pvp setup agent. Those 20 levels make a world of difference in alpha power for agents.

Still we TL7 agents have adapted and perform... okay I guess. When we meet a noob we can usually tear them apart. But against a decent player the scales change a LOT. And like a soldier on the AO forums said, agents get to put on their "ACME Rocket Shoes" whenever they're debuffed.

I agree with Noobas that a LOT of prof vs prof dueling (and then only the best vs the best, and selfbuffed) can indicate how balance lays at that moment. At TL7 for example an *average* agent will instakill an *average* trader. But a *good* agent will never, ever, kill a *good* trader anymore since YEEIYF/GTH/NBD made it ingame. Another thing to keep in mind is breed. Atroxes overall perform much better as IE shades, agents, advies, enfs because of MR. Nanomages can survive the craziest alphas with that cocoon thingie that you can use even when you are stunned.

[Mud]

lol, agree with all of you, but...hahaha, who can kill a good doc? not many that's for sure! In mass pvp, docs drop like a fly, duels...I give up, BS 50/50, hope they get stunned or are trying to dot, but again, a good doc, or even avg doc doesn't die often in a duel, unless they just give up

[Rulzern]

hahaha, who can kill a good doc?

Shades, agents(I think), crats(with quite a bit of luck), MAs(I think), traders, dunno about MPs.

The "regular" TL7 PvP profs can't kill good TL7 docs, that doesn't mean people can't.

Also lup, agents _are_ an above-average PvP prof, TL2 to TL6 they are among the best, and at TL7 they are average, compare that to other profs, who generally have a much shorter (if any) span of levels where they are good (personal view from inconclusive data, I know you don't agree, just illustrating a point, you don't have to tell me how wrong I am or why):

Agent: Good from level 20 to 210, average from 210 to 220
Adventurer: Good from level 100 to 220
Crat: Decent from level ~100
Doctor: Good from 100-170, decent from 215-220
Enforcer: Good from 20-220
Engineer: Never good (except in duels against some profs)
Fixer: Decent from 150-ish
Keeper: Decent at 220
MA: Decent 150-220
MP: Good at 220
NT: Good at 165-220
Shade: Decent at 220
Soldier: Decent at 100-174, good at 220
Trader: The best at 20-190, good at 220

The thing is, the PvP picture changes so drastically for most people between the levels that it's impossible to say anything conclusive about a prof in PvP without having some predetermined information. It's also worth to mention that different profs need different equipment and work to function in PvP, some profs can just sign up for BS and off they go, some require re-twinking to change between PvM and PvP, some require 3b worth of equip for PvP, some don't.

Soldier and NT are(were?) fairly popular choices for PvP because they're relatively easy to play in PvP, and you don't need to farm stuff for years to equip the toon with the basics you need for PvPing.

Anyway, that was a long rant, my point is; balancing by numbers isn't retarded, it will most likely work a ton better than asking the PvP crowd what they feel, since the entry requirements for joining the PvP crowd is out of the reach of most people.

[Sillanto]

Engineer: Never good (except in duels against some profs)

Pff we arent that bad...Well ok maybe. Something engi's show is that toolsets vsatly affect the efficiency of a toon. With engineers the toolset means that well twinked or running around pretty much butt naked in airth and the length of time to kill an engi for most other profs is pretty similar as its hard to use the toolset badly. With agents / docs it requires alot more juggling of nano recharge and timing attacks. So player experience counts for alot more.

At the end of the night its all just one big mess thats going to give someone a headache We can only wait to see what intresting ideas they have while dosed up with caffine

[Rulzern]

personal view from inconclusive data, I know you don't agree, just illustrating a point, you don't have to tell me how wrong I am or why

Silly!

[noobas]

hahaha, who can kill a good doc?

Engineer: Never good (except in duels against some profs)

Not to get sticky here, but just for reference karstiabiatc Won the TL7 pvp tourney.

And Tehevolz is NOT to be taken lightly. The only other engi I know who pvp's hard is nicolas but I can't remember seeing him around for a while. Apparently Arcwolf is trying to pvp, but I have no idea how he's doing. That said, I haven't come across another neut/omni engi who I can't smack into next week using a half alpha on nooba.

So, generally speaking youre right Rulz. One thing however, we cannot discount, EVER, is someone who studies.

The people who study are the best. They know their toons inside out, they have the best equipment, and they know the weakness of the people they are fighting.

The people who study regularly win duels. IF they lose, they will adjust their tactics, and win the rematch. I study, but I still lose regularly on such indomitable foes such as marbreth (also a studier) And this is why I agree with what rulz said, and reiterating what I said. I'm not a bad pvper, by any stretch of the imagination, but, you pit me against marbreth,troxxorz or forz and he'll win 8-9/10 duels. And that is why most people agree that generally Enf beat MA.

However, for the other 99% of the enf I duel, I will knock em down faster than a fat kid who sat down too fast. Which is what you'd expect, that someone who knows their toon inside out will beat nearly anyone else who doesn't.

Rulz: regarding 220 docs being "decent from 215-220" It is 100% not fair to lumpa decently equipped 220 doc into 215-220 category.

I can knock a 219 doc down in under 5 seconds 95% of the time. I can MMMMMMMAAAAAYYYBE kill a 220 doc, if I'm lucky, overall I'd say I'm about 30% win chance vs 220 doc (any) regardless of setup. I've dueled jaxaz, bombadoc, estero, meriadoc and several others, and lost far more than I've won. And it's not because I lack the skills, its because of a QL 125 stim called free movement, and a -150% nano interupt NCU thingy. wtf nerf docs.

QL 220 doc is THE MOST op toon in game!~~!!!!! 220 doc being called decent in pvp is a big understatement! Docs obviously employ the tactic of outlasting, but, they do it so well that it is near impossible to beat them (those who know what they are doing)... I dueled meriadoc last week, and we dueled for at least 5 minutes. WHO can deal with a perfectly equipped 220/30 MA damage for 5 minutes? .... Nerf docs.

[Rulzern]

personal view from inconclusive data, I know you don't agree, just illustrating a point, you don't have to tell me how wrong I am or why

Silly!