I know this is going to get a few of our panties in a twist, but, I think we, and AP are going to have to think hard about our Endgame capabilities in SWTOR, and what we want to do about it.
From what I've gathered so far (and please correct me if I'm wrong), it appears that the top PVE gear in game is only attainable through Hard Mode (HM) raids.
From the PVP perspective, it's quite easy, as long as you enjoy PVP (valor rank 60 to open the battlemaster bags), but the tier two bags can be opened much lower (I think only level 50 req).
The rakata/columi gear offers some decent set bonuses, but, lacks expertise. Expertise is what differentiates the PVPer from the nonPVPer. Expertise increases chances for parry/deflection, reduces damage taken from players, and increases damage done to players, and increases healing amount. To be competitive at the highest levels, 600ish expertise is necessary.
Now, the process to get PVP battlemaster gear is fairly easy, but lengthy, while the process to get the top end PVE gear is incredibly hard, and will probably also be lengthy since every raid you will be rolling against everyone else every time (most likely).
So, for people who like PVP, the outlook isn't too bad, but, for those of us who don't like PVP, we will definitly need to work out how AP can do the hard hard hard endgame raids for the best gear.
So, first of all, I'm wondering, how does our capability stack up? Do we have the right people? do we have ENOUGH people even?
from what I've seen during the last month of play, The people who play in my timezone are very few, usually no more than 3 people online at a time. 3 is certainly not enough for any endgame op. I think 10 or so would be necessary but possible more(?). 4 at least for the 4 man raids, but I kind of doubt there are any "raids" made for 4 or less.
What this means, is that if all AP's were online, and we were all 50, and we had the right profs, we'de still be several short for a raid.
Yes, we have a few more coming, but, I think, if we want to develop into a self sufficient org, we will need to recruit some more people.
I think we should start as well a matrix of our spec capabilities:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 2Q2ZlZsY3c
Maybe we can all update this... The point of it is so we can plan what profs we need, so, when we recruit, or roll alts we can build solid spec distribution in the org.
AP in SWTOR: plans?
AP in SWTOR: plans?
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
At the moment we are all just getting our feet wet and getting the ability to support a larger membership. The idea (in my recollection from some conversations) was to get some toons to high level, learn the game, and then recruit so we can do more things.
We may be at that point where we want to start thinking about it. My feeling is that we are not there yet, but we can all decide that
I do see AP as a raiding guild in the future, although not one with too requirements on our members that they participate in X number of raids, be in-game at certain times, or anything like that. I think we'll all agree that we want AP to be capable of endgame content (and to set the standard there)
We may be at that point where we want to start thinking about it. My feeling is that we are not there yet, but we can all decide that
I do see AP as a raiding guild in the future, although not one with too requirements on our members that they participate in X number of raids, be in-game at certain times, or anything like that. I think we'll all agree that we want AP to be capable of endgame content (and to set the standard there)
General, Athen Paladins
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
We need to figure out timezone and time commitment really. In these type of games people join a guild based on a few things.
PvP/PvE
Raid nights/times
Other (this being, family friendly, laid back, old timers, some language spoken, etc)
Now, many guilds can do multiple raid teams, those that focus on PvP, and others that focus on PvE. For instance I've been in a guild in WoW that on Tues/Thursday we did PvE raids at 8pm my time. But then had a PvP group that ran on Wed and Sunday nights at the same times. This guild had another group that raided on Tues/Thursday/Sunday for PvE 6-10pm.
It's all up to us what we do. Now that being said, we have lots of people spread over different timezones. So this means I doubt there is a way we can have a single raid group that meets all needs. And yes Noobas...getting gear is going to be like other games. There are/will be items that a pure PvPer must do PvE raids to obtain and roll against everyone to get. These raids are made to be like a Beast raid...(old ones that were actually hard). Heck think collector style. There will be no, learn the trick and we can 4 man these. And if this game is like others...just when you get full set of (insert gear here) a new patch comes out with all new stuff!
That means if you want the gear you have to have a stable raid group, at least 75-80% of the same people each time you run, only filling in with extras if you have to. These raids will be much harder than AO's zerg style, and you waste alot of time "carrying" someone...in truth you can't carry people, hardmodes are set up so one mistake pretty much wipes you, etc.
I think we should all get 50's see what we like or don't like. Then began to look at roles. Healers/Tanks are the must haves...but then you need ranged DPS, you need Melee DPS, etc. Oh, and you need raid leaders. And I'm pretty sure you will need a voice chat as well, things happen to fast to rely on typed chat.
I will be happy to be a main healer for whatever raid group, but lets see where it goes for awhile. Some might have leveled up a toon that is melee and now think...eww I want to be ranged. I can also point out that you really need to have a "main." Gearing out more than one toon in real gear is crazy! It will eat up your time like crazy, and normally leads to multiple okay geared toons instead of one well geared toon.
I can ramble more and more...but bascially, everyone that is AP level up, figure out everything, try to pug some raids if you can. Then we will have to recruit to fill whatever raids we plan on.
Above all, what makes AP great is our family, that comes first.
PvP/PvE
Raid nights/times
Other (this being, family friendly, laid back, old timers, some language spoken, etc)
Now, many guilds can do multiple raid teams, those that focus on PvP, and others that focus on PvE. For instance I've been in a guild in WoW that on Tues/Thursday we did PvE raids at 8pm my time. But then had a PvP group that ran on Wed and Sunday nights at the same times. This guild had another group that raided on Tues/Thursday/Sunday for PvE 6-10pm.
It's all up to us what we do. Now that being said, we have lots of people spread over different timezones. So this means I doubt there is a way we can have a single raid group that meets all needs. And yes Noobas...getting gear is going to be like other games. There are/will be items that a pure PvPer must do PvE raids to obtain and roll against everyone to get. These raids are made to be like a Beast raid...(old ones that were actually hard). Heck think collector style. There will be no, learn the trick and we can 4 man these. And if this game is like others...just when you get full set of (insert gear here) a new patch comes out with all new stuff!
That means if you want the gear you have to have a stable raid group, at least 75-80% of the same people each time you run, only filling in with extras if you have to. These raids will be much harder than AO's zerg style, and you waste alot of time "carrying" someone...in truth you can't carry people, hardmodes are set up so one mistake pretty much wipes you, etc.
I think we should all get 50's see what we like or don't like. Then began to look at roles. Healers/Tanks are the must haves...but then you need ranged DPS, you need Melee DPS, etc. Oh, and you need raid leaders. And I'm pretty sure you will need a voice chat as well, things happen to fast to rely on typed chat.
I will be happy to be a main healer for whatever raid group, but lets see where it goes for awhile. Some might have leveled up a toon that is melee and now think...eww I want to be ranged. I can also point out that you really need to have a "main." Gearing out more than one toon in real gear is crazy! It will eat up your time like crazy, and normally leads to multiple okay geared toons instead of one well geared toon.
I can ramble more and more...but bascially, everyone that is AP level up, figure out everything, try to pug some raids if you can. Then we will have to recruit to fill whatever raids we plan on.
Above all, what makes AP great is our family, that comes first.
Daddyrabbit 220/30 ENFStuff
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
Good stuff.
I fully agree with everything said so far.
I've set up a google spreadsheet that outlines our "mains", and their spec (if you punch the link you can also edit the sheet).
The set times for raids seems to be necessity. I have a feeling we're going to need to do org raids on the weekend, due to having a spread of people from europe right through to eastern australia.
It's either that, or, we recruit more people and have a early/late raiding schedule.
I know, right off the bat that Rojo and I are goign to get a shaft on this, and it was something I knew was coming when I joined chi scho server... during my play time theres usually <10 people per planet, whereas in the morning theres usually 35-50+ on each planet.
So, from taht perspective, I feel like it would be a good idea to try to bolster our members from california to asia just to fill in the necessary numbers.
I'm sure there are others out there that will need gear, and probably need a decent raiding org.
Above all, though, mud, you're right --> we need to first and foremost be the AP family. (part of being family though, is also making sure that we have the capability to provide for our members whether they are in europe, NA, or oceania...)
I fully agree with everything said so far.
I've set up a google spreadsheet that outlines our "mains", and their spec (if you punch the link you can also edit the sheet).
The set times for raids seems to be necessity. I have a feeling we're going to need to do org raids on the weekend, due to having a spread of people from europe right through to eastern australia.
It's either that, or, we recruit more people and have a early/late raiding schedule.
I know, right off the bat that Rojo and I are goign to get a shaft on this, and it was something I knew was coming when I joined chi scho server... during my play time theres usually <10 people per planet, whereas in the morning theres usually 35-50+ on each planet.
So, from taht perspective, I feel like it would be a good idea to try to bolster our members from california to asia just to fill in the necessary numbers.
I'm sure there are others out there that will need gear, and probably need a decent raiding org.
Above all, though, mud, you're right --> we need to first and foremost be the AP family. (part of being family though, is also making sure that we have the capability to provide for our members whether they are in europe, NA, or oceania...)
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
First, just a note. But good points all.
SWTOR is a new game for AP. I didn't want to push anyone or rush. I think it's way better to let people progress at their own speed and learn their professions (and others' professions for PvP BTW!) well, and just have fun. This is less effective on the short term, but certainly more efficient and enjoyable on the long term.
As well, as I explained somewhere, there was no point in starting to recruit before
1) the "free" period is over
2) we are starting to have some reasonably knowledgeable high levels to be a reliable and useful / helpful core
For the same reason, it's only now that we'll send an email to all AP's.
As for guilds that would be -for the moment- ahead of us, let's keep in mind that there was a LONG beta in which some players were all the time and those will have an edge for some months over us. It's NOT a problem. Not all of you saw AP starting with barely 6 people and witnesses the struggle and the "ha ha you'll never make it" statements for some kind guys.
As for being self sufficient, it's also why we'll organize tradeskilling now.
The question for an organization is not what they can do the first two months or so but if they will be there and able to do something in 6 months and after.
Family commandos are in the end better than loot-based hordes.
THAT SAID, yes we can now start working as you all said, without rushing or aiming too high.
(Good points BTW, Mud, about raiding in other games then AO... raids are going to be very different from what we were used to in AO.)
Personally, I want to find a good keyboard setup, especially for PvP. Sages have way to many functions to combine and use fast (much more than there are slots in the two main hotbars). I'm on it. But I'm ready to try hard mode in PvM/PvE. We could do some training in flashpoints available in hard mode but I suggest we also team in regular encounters lile a high level FP, to learn how to work together (like: a soldier shouldn't use mortar when a Sage have Force lifted 3 mobs including the Elite one.).
For the moment, and until Bioware implements dual skill trees (so you can for example totally focus on healing... which inevitably gimps you solo and in teams of a few people), my sage is a versatile character, i.e. he won't top the damage, or top the heals, but he can do well in all domains, and he got all CC features.
Not sure what my Scoundrel will do yet. She is only 13 though. I always favored the building of one strong character first. I'm sure it's impossible to correctly master and gear more than one level 50 character at the time being. (Cash is an issue, especially when leveling trade skills, as I'm doing now.)
I started to edit the spreadsheet with my info.
Let's try some stuff, for training purposes and adjusting our playstyle and possibly gear, and that will help us to determine our raid times too.
My first suggestion would be that we start doing high levels FP's to know them and then try them in hard mode. Note that, in hard mode, a lowbie FP like the Esseles is no more lowbie: it's level 50 if you are 50!
Basically, it seems that two people can do a normal FP but it's not fast and can be tough at some points), and you need a team of 4 for a hard FP to do it reasonably fast.
More to come.
SWTOR is a new game for AP. I didn't want to push anyone or rush. I think it's way better to let people progress at their own speed and learn their professions (and others' professions for PvP BTW!) well, and just have fun. This is less effective on the short term, but certainly more efficient and enjoyable on the long term.
As well, as I explained somewhere, there was no point in starting to recruit before
1) the "free" period is over
2) we are starting to have some reasonably knowledgeable high levels to be a reliable and useful / helpful core
For the same reason, it's only now that we'll send an email to all AP's.
As for guilds that would be -for the moment- ahead of us, let's keep in mind that there was a LONG beta in which some players were all the time and those will have an edge for some months over us. It's NOT a problem. Not all of you saw AP starting with barely 6 people and witnesses the struggle and the "ha ha you'll never make it" statements for some kind guys.
As for being self sufficient, it's also why we'll organize tradeskilling now.
The question for an organization is not what they can do the first two months or so but if they will be there and able to do something in 6 months and after.
Family commandos are in the end better than loot-based hordes.
THAT SAID, yes we can now start working as you all said, without rushing or aiming too high.
(Good points BTW, Mud, about raiding in other games then AO... raids are going to be very different from what we were used to in AO.)
Personally, I want to find a good keyboard setup, especially for PvP. Sages have way to many functions to combine and use fast (much more than there are slots in the two main hotbars). I'm on it. But I'm ready to try hard mode in PvM/PvE. We could do some training in flashpoints available in hard mode but I suggest we also team in regular encounters lile a high level FP, to learn how to work together (like: a soldier shouldn't use mortar when a Sage have Force lifted 3 mobs including the Elite one.).
For the moment, and until Bioware implements dual skill trees (so you can for example totally focus on healing... which inevitably gimps you solo and in teams of a few people), my sage is a versatile character, i.e. he won't top the damage, or top the heals, but he can do well in all domains, and he got all CC features.
Not sure what my Scoundrel will do yet. She is only 13 though. I always favored the building of one strong character first. I'm sure it's impossible to correctly master and gear more than one level 50 character at the time being. (Cash is an issue, especially when leveling trade skills, as I'm doing now.)
I started to edit the spreadsheet with my info.
Let's try some stuff, for training purposes and adjusting our playstyle and possibly gear, and that will help us to determine our raid times too.
My first suggestion would be that we start doing high levels FP's to know them and then try them in hard mode. Note that, in hard mode, a lowbie FP like the Esseles is no more lowbie: it's level 50 if you are 50!
Basically, it seems that two people can do a normal FP but it's not fast and can be tough at some points), and you need a team of 4 for a hard FP to do it reasonably fast.
More to come.
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
My feeling is, based on the populations I see online throughout the day, that we're developing into a similar set of timezone issues as we had in AO. Not a big surprise there. Most of the folks we have online -today- are on during Euro afternoon/evening.
Population averages based on -US- Mountain time from my experience:
8-12pm - 2-4 people
12pm-4pm - 4-8 people
4pm-8pm - 1-3 people (obviously, if I am seeing "1" then there are times where it is 0)
8pm-12am - 3-6 people
12am-8am - 0-2 people
12pm to 4pm is the same as 7pm-11pm GMT. Which makes perfect sense.
I'm not doomsaying or anything here, just pointing out practicalities and thinking that we're going to need to focus on 2 raid groups/times.
Additionally, a fair portion of the US evening time players are at least as interested in PVP as in FPs and Ops.
Either way, recruiting will be needed for additional population OR we need a more organized union with the other formerly AO orgs. I know we had the Alliance in AO, but chat makes that impossible in SWTOR, so we need some way to communicate with the others (I've been pondering a SWTOR alliance forum, separate from this one). I don't know if they're in the same "almost but not quite there" boat, but I'm starting to feel that we all made a mistake by not making a single formerly-AO group in SWTOR.
Population averages based on -US- Mountain time from my experience:
8-12pm - 2-4 people
12pm-4pm - 4-8 people
4pm-8pm - 1-3 people (obviously, if I am seeing "1" then there are times where it is 0)
8pm-12am - 3-6 people
12am-8am - 0-2 people
12pm to 4pm is the same as 7pm-11pm GMT. Which makes perfect sense.
I'm not doomsaying or anything here, just pointing out practicalities and thinking that we're going to need to focus on 2 raid groups/times.
Additionally, a fair portion of the US evening time players are at least as interested in PVP as in FPs and Ops.
Either way, recruiting will be needed for additional population OR we need a more organized union with the other formerly AO orgs. I know we had the Alliance in AO, but chat makes that impossible in SWTOR, so we need some way to communicate with the others (I've been pondering a SWTOR alliance forum, separate from this one). I don't know if they're in the same "almost but not quite there" boat, but I'm starting to feel that we all made a mistake by not making a single formerly-AO group in SWTOR.
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
It's mostly as question of numbers. When AO was populated, we didn't really have time zones issues. Some inconvenience for time to time maybe but no issue. (Australia and New Zealand being of course a critical question.)
So, what do we need?
If I understand well, SWTOR Flashpoints even in hard mode, are for a small team of 4.
Planet bosses seem to be doable by two SWTOR-sized teams, possibly one team. (?) Note that it seems there could be some mechanism to eliminate levels way higher than the boss (we saw something like that when we did the Coruscant planet boss, like "bang you're dead!")
Operations seem to be capped at 16 people (?). If so, this likely means they can be done with less raiders like maybe 12, if well equipped and knowing their job.
We are now one month after the launch so we can start making plans but, on the other hand, it's a bit early to worry -or to be happy- because we just don't know how it's going to be in even only two months from now.
The above would mean that if we have 6-7 people (that's not much) in our big time zones (night GMT / very late night-morning GMT), AND we schedule in a stricter way than in AO, we can do a lot of things, including PvP, and we need to have some outside reinforcements for operations, and in this case, we would likely still be most represented org in the operation.
Starting to have operations with "outsiders" could in fact help with two things:
- make AP known
- find potential new -good- members
until we maybe are enough to be totally self-sufficient. (And still, having some open activities looks good to me.)
So, what do we need?
If I understand well, SWTOR Flashpoints even in hard mode, are for a small team of 4.
Planet bosses seem to be doable by two SWTOR-sized teams, possibly one team. (?) Note that it seems there could be some mechanism to eliminate levels way higher than the boss (we saw something like that when we did the Coruscant planet boss, like "bang you're dead!")
Operations seem to be capped at 16 people (?). If so, this likely means they can be done with less raiders like maybe 12, if well equipped and knowing their job.
We are now one month after the launch so we can start making plans but, on the other hand, it's a bit early to worry -or to be happy- because we just don't know how it's going to be in even only two months from now.
The above would mean that if we have 6-7 people (that's not much) in our big time zones (night GMT / very late night-morning GMT), AND we schedule in a stricter way than in AO, we can do a lot of things, including PvP, and we need to have some outside reinforcements for operations, and in this case, we would likely still be most represented org in the operation.
Starting to have operations with "outsiders" could in fact help with two things:
- make AP known
- find potential new -good- members
until we maybe are enough to be totally self-sufficient. (And still, having some open activities looks good to me.)
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
Mostly agreed except:
The difference between AO and SWTOR is that SWTOR raiding is going to be MUCH more like WoW raiding than AO. That means that Operations (and to a lesser point hardmode flashpoints) is going to require not just basic boss knowledge but a fair amount of choreography. And to get into the hardmode Ops you're going to require practice a few times per week to get them down.
That makes the timezone issue far more relevant than it was in AO. In AO if you missed a raid, no biggie, because overall AO's raids were quite simplistic and easy (and due to not being instanced until recently, very zergable). The SWTOR equivalent of this is most definitely world bosses and possibly Ilum for PVP.
The other option, and the one I think we've pretty much defaulted to for now, is to wait out the content a bit. For instance in WoW it is very common that a more casual guild would not do a raid when it was new but actually wait until the next raid was out. That way the gear and knowledge scale is less for the previous raid (for instance, in the Lich King days, it was common that people didn't do hardmode ToC raid until after the final Lich King raid came out ... and many people didn't do the final Lich King raid until after the next expansion came out).
I can definitely see a case where AP focuses on things like HM FPs for now along with world bosses when able, and skips Ops for a while longer until we have a crew that can take them. Ops will require more time and coordination than AP has yet tried to do. And, whether everyone speaks or not, will likely require voice communications and at least a couple of people willing to speak up and raid lead over voice. If too many people refuse to use voice, then it will mean taking that much longer on the harder content.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AP can never do the hardest stuff ... I'm just trying to bring some reality to what we can accomplish so that people don't quit in disgust. If we are going to recruit, we need to be up front with recruits that until we are much more established we are a casual guild and will not be doing regular raids. Literally missing -1- person in a hard raid is enough to cause it to only be a wipe after wipe type scenario. There are VERY few things in AO that were DPS races. Almost nothing in AO had a true enrage timer. Very few bosses in AO had complex attacks. While I don't expect the HM FPs to be too bad about this, I do expect Ops (and future FPs) to be far more complicated than AO content.
...
PS. On a personal note, between work and other things, I can't commit to very many DEFINITE times like raiding typically requires. My days of 18 hour play days with 2-3 Beast runs out of a possible 3 are -over-. I pretty much am unable to do more than a random Flashpoint here and there during business hours. I'm on a lot during my business day but I am also AFK well over half that time. So please understand ... I'm actually not expecting to do much raiding in AP and am ok with that. I'm just trying to convey experiences with organized raiding so that you don't slam your head against a brick wall
Times were often an issue. They not only required you (as in you, Chrisax) to manage everyone's time to find sweet spots ... but they also required people to pop on at times they otherwise wouldn't. How many raids were cancelled due to lack of attendance? In AO ... miss a raid no big deal. In a regular raiding group in something like SWTOR (or WoW, Rift, etc) if you don't have at least a weekly raid you're going to find many people who may have joined a guild for the purposes of raiding just leave. If we're going to recruit then you're going to encounter this. And if we don't recruit you're never going to see an AP Op happen (at least not a most-current Op, see below).Chrisax wrote:It's mostly as question of numbers. When AO was populated, we didn't really have time zones issues. Some inconvenience for time to time maybe but no issue. (Australia and New Zealand being of course a critical question.)
The difference between AO and SWTOR is that SWTOR raiding is going to be MUCH more like WoW raiding than AO. That means that Operations (and to a lesser point hardmode flashpoints) is going to require not just basic boss knowledge but a fair amount of choreography. And to get into the hardmode Ops you're going to require practice a few times per week to get them down.
That makes the timezone issue far more relevant than it was in AO. In AO if you missed a raid, no biggie, because overall AO's raids were quite simplistic and easy (and due to not being instanced until recently, very zergable). The SWTOR equivalent of this is most definitely world bosses and possibly Ilum for PVP.
The other option, and the one I think we've pretty much defaulted to for now, is to wait out the content a bit. For instance in WoW it is very common that a more casual guild would not do a raid when it was new but actually wait until the next raid was out. That way the gear and knowledge scale is less for the previous raid (for instance, in the Lich King days, it was common that people didn't do hardmode ToC raid until after the final Lich King raid came out ... and many people didn't do the final Lich King raid until after the next expansion came out).
I can definitely see a case where AP focuses on things like HM FPs for now along with world bosses when able, and skips Ops for a while longer until we have a crew that can take them. Ops will require more time and coordination than AP has yet tried to do. And, whether everyone speaks or not, will likely require voice communications and at least a couple of people willing to speak up and raid lead over voice. If too many people refuse to use voice, then it will mean taking that much longer on the harder content.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AP can never do the hardest stuff ... I'm just trying to bring some reality to what we can accomplish so that people don't quit in disgust. If we are going to recruit, we need to be up front with recruits that until we are much more established we are a casual guild and will not be doing regular raids. Literally missing -1- person in a hard raid is enough to cause it to only be a wipe after wipe type scenario. There are VERY few things in AO that were DPS races. Almost nothing in AO had a true enrage timer. Very few bosses in AO had complex attacks. While I don't expect the HM FPs to be too bad about this, I do expect Ops (and future FPs) to be far more complicated than AO content.
...
PS. On a personal note, between work and other things, I can't commit to very many DEFINITE times like raiding typically requires. My days of 18 hour play days with 2-3 Beast runs out of a possible 3 are -over-. I pretty much am unable to do more than a random Flashpoint here and there during business hours. I'm on a lot during my business day but I am also AFK well over half that time. So please understand ... I'm actually not expecting to do much raiding in AP and am ok with that. I'm just trying to convey experiences with organized raiding so that you don't slam your head against a brick wall
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
I have no problem with focussing on the things we are capable of as an org, for now.
My personal priorities are:
1. level to 49 doing as much warzone as possible, getting as many items/ mercenary comms/WZ comms as I can prior to ding 50
2. level to 50
3. work on my Blues/purples craft capability
4. Help other AP's with stuff they need
5. do FP's with the AP's that are onine with my usually (Lasa, smee, rojo)
Even with just me, smee lasa and rojo we've got a basic raiding outfit, which, imo, is great! Just last night, smee+me+lasa were rolling as tank, heals, and DPS and we destroyed Taral V very easily. It's lower QL than us, but I can see that our capability will be very good with another supporting person (Rojo) when he dings up a bit.
On another note:
The one thing I've noticed, is that the number of commendations I have that are now useless (for Jackydee) are going to pave the way for my guardian in terms of usable mods... and, it's going to mean having almost exactly up to date blue modded orange all the way through the level range. (unless I'm off kilter and comm mods are bind on pickup (fingers crossed)).
My personal priorities are:
1. level to 49 doing as much warzone as possible, getting as many items/ mercenary comms/WZ comms as I can prior to ding 50
2. level to 50
3. work on my Blues/purples craft capability
4. Help other AP's with stuff they need
5. do FP's with the AP's that are onine with my usually (Lasa, smee, rojo)
Even with just me, smee lasa and rojo we've got a basic raiding outfit, which, imo, is great! Just last night, smee+me+lasa were rolling as tank, heals, and DPS and we destroyed Taral V very easily. It's lower QL than us, but I can see that our capability will be very good with another supporting person (Rojo) when he dings up a bit.
On another note:
The one thing I've noticed, is that the number of commendations I have that are now useless (for Jackydee) are going to pave the way for my guardian in terms of usable mods... and, it's going to mean having almost exactly up to date blue modded orange all the way through the level range. (unless I'm off kilter and comm mods are bind on pickup (fingers crossed)).
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
Great news you had a successful first AP raid! Congratulations. 
As for myself, I posted that I dinged Artifice 400 and I was already archeology 400, and my goals are :
As for myself, I posted that I dinged Artifice 400 and I was already archeology 400, and my goals are :
- Make money to be able top achieve most of the following. For the first time in a MMORPG, I'm almost constantly broke (since level 46ish).
Raise Treasure Hunting to 400 to be able to get the big gems (not archeology crystals) that are required for artifice. (They are sold like 45000 each when available on the market.)
Buy purple schematics for relics from the store: that will make me able to create level 50 purple Rakati Relics that will make you cry out of joy!
Find artifice schematics: absolutely none on the market, except a blue one last night. Reverse engineering is going to cost a fortune and be an insane grind. I want to be able to make Offhand devices (unfortunately I realized that even with 400 artifice you can only make the offhand items you could yourself equip, i.e. the ones for your class, and that makes me mad). And of course be able to make great enhancements devices, hilts, crystals,... Not sure how much the lightsabers I can make are interesting.
Finish and test in real conditions the work on my programmable keyboard because it's insane to have no GUI able to handle conveniently all the functions you got. (Mostly for PvP; in PvM, it's manageable although awkward.)
Go PvP again.
Figure out how I can improve my gear because, at the moment, ALL the items level 50ish I can see, even special vendors' purple armors and PvP ones, are not clearly superior to what I have: there are always drawbacks that can't be compensated (maybe with more purple artifice items, it's doable).
Same issue with Nadia's gear.
Need to totally re-equip Theran Cedrax, as he can be a very interesting healer / interruption caster in teams if there is room for him.
I sent to my smuggler good stuff when I found it on the way, to make her progression somewhat easier. But ATM I can't really do much for her.
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
With regards to growing AP in SWTOR...
Last few times I've played there's been nobody online.
I know we've lost a few recruits who have had the decency to say I'm taking off, but there could be others who have bailed without telling anyone.
The most I've seen online is 5. This isn't cutting it folks.
So, here's a question, for us all to think about:
How do we want to grow AP in SWTOR?
As it stands, we're not growing, and, we WILL NOT GROW if we don't do anything.
I know that AP has had a policy of not advertising to gain recruits, but, besides me, who HAS made any connections? Has anyone been recruited since startup?
As chris mentioned in another thread, theres no real benefit to having a guild in SWTOR, as you can level all the way to 50 without a guild... But, I think he's wrong. The benefit is what is gained by having a group of people that you actually CAN and DO raid with consistently.
But, to get there, we need people that we can raid with. Whether it be for PVP, ops, FP's, HM's or whatever.
But, we can't even begin to THINK about those things until we're growing at a rate that EXCEEDS the bleed rate. (Currently, our bleed rate is greater than the recruit rate.)
To remedy that, we actually need to be ACTIVELY recruiting.
So: how do we want to do that?
And, if the answer to that is: I don't want to recruit... then we might want to evaluate joining another org that can provide the level of recruitment that exceeds the bleed rate so we can actually start functioning like a guild.
Comments?
Last few times I've played there's been nobody online.
I know we've lost a few recruits who have had the decency to say I'm taking off, but there could be others who have bailed without telling anyone.
The most I've seen online is 5. This isn't cutting it folks.
So, here's a question, for us all to think about:
How do we want to grow AP in SWTOR?
As it stands, we're not growing, and, we WILL NOT GROW if we don't do anything.
I know that AP has had a policy of not advertising to gain recruits, but, besides me, who HAS made any connections? Has anyone been recruited since startup?
As chris mentioned in another thread, theres no real benefit to having a guild in SWTOR, as you can level all the way to 50 without a guild... But, I think he's wrong. The benefit is what is gained by having a group of people that you actually CAN and DO raid with consistently.
But, to get there, we need people that we can raid with. Whether it be for PVP, ops, FP's, HM's or whatever.
But, we can't even begin to THINK about those things until we're growing at a rate that EXCEEDS the bleed rate. (Currently, our bleed rate is greater than the recruit rate.)
To remedy that, we actually need to be ACTIVELY recruiting.
So: how do we want to do that?
And, if the answer to that is: I don't want to recruit... then we might want to evaluate joining another org that can provide the level of recruitment that exceeds the bleed rate so we can actually start functioning like a guild.
Comments?
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
1) Broaching the hard topic first:
Yep, I was online some yesterday throughout the day and for the majority of it it was just me.
I know this might not work for some folks BUT I would have preferred that the AO players had merged guilds. Having the combined force of AP + JVC + LH + VA would have made this a non-issue.
Do we know how their rosters are looking? If it is similar for them then a merge may still be in play. If one or more of them are significantly more healthy ... probably not.
For me playing with AP folks is about the people, not the name, so I'm not against a lopsided "merge" (where we join another group), though the ideal would be one where we all form something new. I also have friends in those other orgs and even with whatever issues some people might have had with them in AO it is a WHOLE lot better than to rely on random recruiting from a reliability perspective.
2) Back to the original thought
If we're not going to work towards #1 above, and even if we did, yes ... it is time to recruit. And imo to recruit we still need a more SWTOR-focused sight. I can work on that.
We'll need to have some more structure in how we do invites. Applications may suck, people may gripe about not wanting to have to sign up for a forums account, but with -nothing- required it is too easy to lose contact and not know enough about the new person.
I'm not saying we need things to be as long as AP. But we do need a basic "create an account, fill out a simple app, then join" process. At the very least we need a "you got an invite, you need to create an account and fill out the app to get past the 'recruit' rank" policy.
...
And yes, we need to get more people online in a guild roster, be it through merge, recruitment, or both ... or people eventually move on once everyone has leveled into the Ops / 50 PVP / etc content ... and especially once server xfers are allowed.
AP in SWTOR started as an experiment and mentally for some folks was a placeholder until TSW came out. This is perfectly valid. However enough people are still playing that it is time to bite down hard OR admit that AP was just that so that people know they are free to pursue their game more hardcore.
I'm not, at all, griping. I've been playing completely casual so far and am not at the "must have more people to play the game I want to play" -yet-. But I see the reality of the situation, too.
...
PS. Chrisax ... stop ... breathe. No one is expecting YOU to be online 24/7 and fix all this by your presence. Heck, you may well even disappear from SWTOR for the most part once TSW comes out. Definitely at first. This entire thread is in NO WAY trying to make you give even more time than you want to either game. Tackle it from that perspective please Games should be fun. Don't make this more work than is FUN.
Yep, I was online some yesterday throughout the day and for the majority of it it was just me.
I know this might not work for some folks BUT I would have preferred that the AO players had merged guilds. Having the combined force of AP + JVC + LH + VA would have made this a non-issue.
Do we know how their rosters are looking? If it is similar for them then a merge may still be in play. If one or more of them are significantly more healthy ... probably not.
For me playing with AP folks is about the people, not the name, so I'm not against a lopsided "merge" (where we join another group), though the ideal would be one where we all form something new. I also have friends in those other orgs and even with whatever issues some people might have had with them in AO it is a WHOLE lot better than to rely on random recruiting from a reliability perspective.
2) Back to the original thought
If we're not going to work towards #1 above, and even if we did, yes ... it is time to recruit. And imo to recruit we still need a more SWTOR-focused sight. I can work on that.
We'll need to have some more structure in how we do invites. Applications may suck, people may gripe about not wanting to have to sign up for a forums account, but with -nothing- required it is too easy to lose contact and not know enough about the new person.
I'm not saying we need things to be as long as AP. But we do need a basic "create an account, fill out a simple app, then join" process. At the very least we need a "you got an invite, you need to create an account and fill out the app to get past the 'recruit' rank" policy.
...
And yes, we need to get more people online in a guild roster, be it through merge, recruitment, or both ... or people eventually move on once everyone has leveled into the Ops / 50 PVP / etc content ... and especially once server xfers are allowed.
AP in SWTOR started as an experiment and mentally for some folks was a placeholder until TSW came out. This is perfectly valid. However enough people are still playing that it is time to bite down hard OR admit that AP was just that so that people know they are free to pursue their game more hardcore.
I'm not, at all, griping. I've been playing completely casual so far and am not at the "must have more people to play the game I want to play" -yet-. But I see the reality of the situation, too.
...
PS. Chrisax ... stop ... breathe. No one is expecting YOU to be online 24/7 and fix all this by your presence. Heck, you may well even disappear from SWTOR for the most part once TSW comes out. Definitely at first. This entire thread is in NO WAY trying to make you give even more time than you want to either game. Tackle it from that perspective please
Games should be fun. Don't make this more work than is FUN.Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
this. omg thisHyde wrote: Games should be fun. Don't make this more work than is FUN.
Also, i was looking for a "guilds area" on SWTOR forums to see if other guilds are recruiting there. I could not find it. Did I just miss it?
General, Athen Paladins
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
Sounds like me and hyde are on the same page here.
Especially the part about chris, HOWEVER, there is one thing that, Imo, chris is the best person to do, and that is, if we decide to join with other AO/alliance orgs in SWTOR, Chris should be the one who talks things out with the other guild/org leaders.
I'll voice my vote right now:
In my opinion, I love the AP crew, but, we're currently relegated to solo content or small team content while leveling. For me, this doesn't cut it. I want to do the level 50 content. I want to do the HM's and all that cool stuff.
I dont' really care if it's with PUG's or whatever, but, generally, I'd rather do it with people I know and like. How we GET THERE, I don't care.
I'm all for a merger. I'm not attached to the AP name, I'm attached to the guys who populate the org. So, if we can join a merged org (call it the AO conglomerate) Fine. I'd like to know what others think though, because I'm not too fussy.
If other guys want to go on a recruitment drive to bolster our numbers, I'll help with that. But I think the easiest way to get big, fast, with GOOD PEOPLE, is to merge with JVC/ daggets crew/ PR whoever. We know them, they are good people, we can merge and all be happy. If we're not flying the AP banner, tough, but, at least we'll be enjoying all aspects of the game.
Especially the part about chris, HOWEVER, there is one thing that, Imo, chris is the best person to do, and that is, if we decide to join with other AO/alliance orgs in SWTOR, Chris should be the one who talks things out with the other guild/org leaders.
I'll voice my vote right now:
In my opinion, I love the AP crew, but, we're currently relegated to solo content or small team content while leveling. For me, this doesn't cut it. I want to do the level 50 content. I want to do the HM's and all that cool stuff.
I dont' really care if it's with PUG's or whatever, but, generally, I'd rather do it with people I know and like. How we GET THERE, I don't care.
I'm all for a merger. I'm not attached to the AP name, I'm attached to the guys who populate the org. So, if we can join a merged org (call it the AO conglomerate) Fine. I'd like to know what others think though, because I'm not too fussy.
If other guys want to go on a recruitment drive to bolster our numbers, I'll help with that. But I think the easiest way to get big, fast, with GOOD PEOPLE, is to merge with JVC/ daggets crew/ PR whoever. We know them, they are good people, we can merge and all be happy. If we're not flying the AP banner, tough, but, at least we'll be enjoying all aspects of the game.
" I Don't Like That Man. I Must Get To Know Him Better." -Abraham Lincoln
Re: AP in SWTOR: plans?
I think we all just need to take a step back.
First thing is we are trying to build Rome in one day here. AP wasnt big when it started in AO. It definitely would've gone through the "we need more ppl desperately" stage. This is not new territory.
For those who are lvl 50 in AP, I would suggest trying to spam in fleet for more people to do a big group thing. (not sure how parties of 4 work for a big raid, but anyway). There wont be too many orgs now who can run an inter-org HM PF. So why not branch out a bit. You never know that a 10-20 person org with lotsa beginners like ours might be looking to combine or something. But nothing is going to get solved being on the forums saying "we need ppl".
I think the ONLY thing to decide is will we advertise, how will we do it, and what are the guidelines about recruiting. Its probably most sensible to orientate PvM, since that is the server we are on. We dont need close the the numbers for PvP that we do for PvM so its a given that one can play off the other. Also the absence of world PvP objectives (like NW) means that its just not as desirable on a PvM server.
But we have to be patient. All this talk undoubtedly stresses chris out and makes his do too much out of office stuff instead of building his own toon.
Anyhow i think we need to start a thread about how to advertise, how to make the site more SW orientated and then just go and do it. not talk about it.
First thing is we are trying to build Rome in one day here. AP wasnt big when it started in AO. It definitely would've gone through the "we need more ppl desperately" stage. This is not new territory.
For those who are lvl 50 in AP, I would suggest trying to spam in fleet for more people to do a big group thing. (not sure how parties of 4 work for a big raid, but anyway). There wont be too many orgs now who can run an inter-org HM PF. So why not branch out a bit. You never know that a 10-20 person org with lotsa beginners like ours might be looking to combine or something. But nothing is going to get solved being on the forums saying "we need ppl".
I think the ONLY thing to decide is will we advertise, how will we do it, and what are the guidelines about recruiting. Its probably most sensible to orientate PvM, since that is the server we are on. We dont need close the the numbers for PvP that we do for PvM so its a given that one can play off the other. Also the absence of world PvP objectives (like NW) means that its just not as desirable on a PvM server.
But we have to be patient. All this talk undoubtedly stresses chris out and makes his do too much out of office stuff instead of building his own toon.
Anyhow i think we need to start a thread about how to advertise, how to make the site more SW orientated and then just go and do it. not talk about it.